There are too many players complaining about their favorite heros “not working” anymore. We should help each other explore new playstyles that work in 2-2-2. The “nerfs” or “buffs” happen when we play together as a team. Please help by posting “new” ways to play your hero that is more “team” oriented.
Example: I may open a new thread for Symetra players to place a tele on top of the elevator platform first point on Hollywood. From that high vantage point the tele is not easy to destroy. A Bastion or Zen could pop in and out to take a healing break in a safer location.
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Yep. Metas should evolve naturally though changing community play styles, not through devs intervening directly. Try new things and maybe that’ll be the new meta.
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Yes. The developers are trying to balance the game with “team” play not “lone ranger” play.
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that implies OWL has a reason to bother. they do not. Note how ladder and owl doesnt reflect another at all. “meta” for the 99% is entirely different than OWL.
Note Goats and Brigs measly 2% pickrate across platforms.
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Yet they released Brig to end dive and released 222 to end goats
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Brig was in development because there needed to be a sturdy support, not just because of dive, and the devs said recently that 2-2-2 was in the works for a full year before we got it, which is before GOATS was even a thing.
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“try new things” thats the equaivelent of being a troller and a thrower in this community …
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Only to dummies. I try to stick to my guns and play what I know we need even when they say that.
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Oh the delusion is strong, you REALLY think it was coincidence she came out during Dive and just happened to end dive…Please
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i think its funny that brig has been nerfed and yet dive didn’t make a sudden return. 
Yes, because double shield meta is thriving currently, why would dive come back all of the sudden? I don’t understand what you mean?
and what makes double shield the meta?
what defined dive?
if you dont look at things beyond a “meta” and ignore context, then you just are crying about nothing.
Brig didn’t do anything to dive. It was mercy prior. Which meant widow and doomfist.
Ignoring the history, the current dynamics of ladder and owl only makes appeals to devs to address a meta. and THAT’S how we have dive dead now. not brig
They released her to end dive, again, you think its a coincidence that when dive was the meta and she came out and countered dive… dive ended? This is one of the FIRST times I’ve seen someone say otherwise, I thought it was common knowledge and frankly common sense.
Use 2-2-2 quick play to practice new “team” playstyles. Your not risking SR. Your not throwing the game.
Dive wasn’t the meta when brig hit.
Mercy was.
the devs should not be balancing their game with the assumption that every team every player gets would be like OWL pro team level of coordination and cooperation. it simply doesn’t happen esp when most solo queue (and high up ranks can’t even group stack). unless you’re playing a full stack, you have strangers who you’re likely meeting for the 1st time on your team. high coordination can’t be expected in ladder.
Heroes should be balanced to be able to do their job/role individually (or well have reasonable chance to do so from looking at their kits and comparing with others), and teamplay or synergy is rewarded on top of that. Even the devs have this view
Balancing heroes to require team coordination to function is an easy recipe for poor gameplay. trolls exist, bias against things exist (e.g. people hating certain heroes to throw on sight), not everyone has the same skills to pull off everything possible in the game, etc. these are all random variables that appear with random matchmaking. You can’t just assume a high standard and just balance around that standard without worsening the expected experience since most games have a lower expected standard.
And this is why sombra’s struggling in balance esp in 2-2-2, and why new sym tp downtime is actually really terrible.
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Your right. There are a lot of kids,young adults,adults,and senior adults playing this game. The game gives the freedom to play anywhere you want with in the bounds of the game. If you had the chance to balance the game what “baseline” would you use to follow the team player theme of Overwatch?
I think a base line would be heroes having the independence to fulfill their intended role/job without needing to to be highly or totally dependent on the specifics of how the team plays. that way, random factors like leavers trollers, people not having compatible hero pools, hero hate, etc. aren’t as an important factor which would consequently make games feel less rng. Obviously still reward teamplay.
an example of a hero that is a bit too independent is tracer: it’s clear how blinks and recall work for tracer to get in and out for her to do her job.
a more balanced example is ashe, she doesn’t require particularly another hero to be able to snipe or kill, sure mercy damage boost lets her one shot, but she still kills and do plenty of damage without teammates needing to cater to her needs. another more balanced example is lucio. yes he works better with teammates grouped up, but lucio himself can move around with his speed and wall ride speed boosts to “catch” people in his aura. these conditions are good synergy, but not required to get value out of the heroes.
a hero that was a bit too dependent would be sym right before her tp rework in the sigma patch. with tp being on demand to cast, sym’s issue of having low mobility to engage or disengage in fights whiles having low range, low sustain and high delays was alleviated a lot and did in fact make her plenty flexible compared to before her 3.0 rework. but what old sym3.0 lacked was something to make her able more reasonably duel or justify long delays because old tp more or less put the range and mobility issue to an acceptable part, but the sustain vs delays balance was underpowered.
extreme examples of being too dependent would be sombra, bastion and current sym where they need specific comps and/or teammates to go out of their way to play in a specific way (like team pocket, actively use tp, etc.) in order to get value out of them otherwise they’re not worth the pick nor time.
long story short: hero kit balance should be around being independent to be able to fulfil their job/role, reward team play when it exists rather than hard require it then punish the individual for the lack of it.
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The independent ones have high solo kill stats like Snipers and Doomfist. Might need to fix that too
I never said that all independent heroes are balanced. not to mention I was saying heroes like ashe and lucio are more on the mark. like most of the cast is at least fairly independent. e g junkrat doesn’t impose as many requirements as sombra, current sym and bastion, likewise same for genji, mccree, baptiste, dva, winston, torb, etc.
not to mention there are heroes that are really independent but don’t have high stats too e.g. tracer and soldier.
yes, there are some heroes being too independent and need some tweaks as you say. But it doesn’t mean the baseline for independence of heroes’ kits should be “must work together like they’ve known each other for like 5yrs” or something. like that’s just unrealistic.
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