Stop comparing heroes to sym

My point still stands, there’s no hero who should be allowed to be kept meta.

So no hero should be meta forevere is what you’re saying. This I can agree. But I would say the devs have already cycle the vast majority of heros. From begin meta to none meta and in certain case back to meta.

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Then she needs buffs to become more mainstream. Your making some arbitrary call on what is acceptable… you don’t get to make that call (fortunately). We don’t make the game only for some cutoff on what is more popular, that’s kind of… stupid to be frank. But given relative popularity, I guess we should ditch Tracer who’s not far off from her in popularity. Tell you what, we remove tracer from it all as well, we have a deal.

Thanks for slipping up! You contradicted your own main point.

You think buffing Sym would make her must-pick and that she doesn’t appeal to players, then you claim that those other characters have a high pickrate because they appeal to players.


how does that not further prove my point


You claim that a buff to an unpopular character would make her have a high pick rate.

You then claim that some characters have a pickrate because they’re popular.

These are two opposing forces and the second point contradicts your first thought process.


You said Widow/Hanzo were meta because they were popular.

Well, if Symmetra isn’t popular on your terms, then we don’t have to worry about her becoming meta, right?


I think she was slightly overtuned (not OP) at all ranks, no exception. The only reason I never asked for a nerf in the forums was because she was my main and I wanted to feel strong she could receive a good bunch of QoL changes to make her a bit less clunky to play before receiving a nerf blow.

Even then, I’ve been always advocating for nerfing Shield Gen duration (instead of infinite, it would keep draining ult charge, requiring Sym to stay active to keep it up), and/or moving 25 shield from her ult to a global aura passive to mirror Sym1 old Photon Shield benefit without the annoying upkeep.

It don’t help that calling her “not weak” would be seen as weird from both your average player and Sym mains. As Jeff said once, the perception of balance is stronger than balance itself. Yet, statistics don’t lie, and she had good winrates across all ranks, despite there being a lot of players that would throw the match or get their morale down the moment a teammate lock her.

Then don’t balance her for OWL. Simple as that.

I really don’t understand that reasoning that every hero need to be “played at OWL” to be relevant. There is no problems having some kind of “gateway” characters that would shine if the enemy team didn’t covered a main part of the game.

For instance, Bastion is a lot more dangerous if the other team don’t know how engage together, and Sym idem, but from a different aspect of teamwork.

Bastion is usually the central point of any team featuring him. If you can disable Bastion, usually you win because everyone else was focused more on peeling for him, and not dealing with the enemy team. So it would encourage people to look at the match objectively and focus resources on taking Bastion down as soon as possible.

Symmetra, on the other hand, would empower her team in such a way to make everyone more resilient, while keeping flankers at bay because if they engage carelessly, they would melt away from turret fire and autolock beam without doing much in retaliation. But Sym’s defensive measures are useless against focused fire. If you get 3+ players shooting at the same hero, 75 extra HP will not save them. If they all move together, turrets aren’t that dangerous. And if you don’t hesitate jumping into her before she can power up her beam, she isn’t dangerous at all.

Neither Bastion or Sym will ever have huge OWL representation. And even if they never see pro game time, it’s not unexpected. Because the intention of having such characters in the game is not to elevate a sick Sym main to a star pro player position. Is to teach your playerbase about game basics. If everyone know those basics, then the character pickrate and winrates plummet, and that’s when you should start focusing on reworking their intended role in the grand scheme of things.

Sombra and Bastion reached that point. Sym was reworked while still sustaining 60% winrate across all ranks. The community as a whole still didn’t learned how to deal with a good Symmetra, but the pro players did, which meant she was in the weird vacuum where she was slightly OP on ladder and sheer useless in pro (which was not a negative, just reiterating). Which made a lot of people think she should be useless in ladder as well, and get surprised by how good she was when not kept in check by a coordinated team.

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That is not what they are saying. What they mean is that you gotta adjust, just like they had to adjust four times in a row.

Sym has been reworked twice already. So they had to relearn the same here three times. There is no other hero were you had to relearn more then twice. Plus a huge nerf to boot.

They are basically trying to say adjust, because if they can, so can you.

Truly, Sym mains are very adoptable, I commend them for it.

No hero should be meta, but no hero should be weak either.

But not everyone should be punished for playing an underperforming hero.


Genji should not be meta, because he only appeals to a niche playerbase.
Winston should not be meta, because he only appeals to a niche playerbase.
Widow should not be meta, because she only appeals to a niche playerbase.
Ana should not be meta, because she only appeals to a niche playerbase.
Lucio should not be meta, because he only appeals to a niche playerbase.
Junkrat should not be meta, because he only appeals to a niche playerbase.

Should I go on? Literally every hero could fit into this. Symm is a larger “niche” because she’s been so bad since game launch. She’s been changed so much that many players of her moved on to other heroes or games.


Her and Carolina are amazing. I love how they bring all the other VA’s together :blush:

1 Like if you go by gameplay flow changes. Lúcio if you add up all speed and wallride changes that messed up with rollouts muscle memory.

I’d say no change was as radical as Sym2 to Sym3, but there was a good amount of heroes with constant “minor adjustments” that you had to learn and relearn your own hero over time.

Sym should be able to counter SOME heroes, but she does not. She counters NOTHING. Moira does more effective damage than Sym does. Her orb plus left click is a guaranteed 100dps that is unavoidable. Sym needs to have pinpoint precision to charge her left click, her turrets have a massive cooldown and are weak, her teleport if destroyed also has a massive cooldown. Only in VERY rare occassion can she be effective, all the other times she is dead meat. It is shamefull that she can’t even counter those she used to counter.

so many heroes have no characters they counter but so many counter for themselves and its gross lol

just say gays


That is fair, though I always consider Sym to be the best example. Each rework of Sym is basically a completely different hero.

sym mains play her for the personality not the kit idk why
the higher ranked ones like raihan or fenner are more effected obviously but the majority are below gold and dont care, just want their character to be OP

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That is not true, most Sym players such as me and my friends like her for the kit. She is different, which what we like.

Keep in mind Sym has very little story development, so there is almost no personality to go by.

Do you have any data to support this? I see most Syms in plat or higher, I myself am in plat as well.

Below gold do not usually have the skill set necessary to play Sym well.

All mains want their hero to be the best. However in the case of Sym, you gotta understand that she not doing so well.

We ask for a buff not to make her OP, but to make her viable.

I am not sure why you purposely want certain heroes to be awful. Also how do you all of a sudden know so much about Sym mains? No offence but maybe you should do more research about Sym before you start making claims.


I play her entirely for her kit, i dont like neither her appearance or personality.

I love that she is the closest thing we have to a strategist hero and i kinda like the place she is at at the moment,but she does need a little buff to either lethality or survival.
Because the way it is now,you only win a fight with Sym if the enemy is incompetent, or its a fight that is fought on your terms. You barely have a chance if its a fight you didnt want to engage in.

I dont want her OP,i want her to be in a place where i dont have to worry about being reported by my own team if i make a single mistake,or from the enemy team if i actually do well because it triggers them. I dont think anyone can deny at this point that most people look at a Symmetra performance more in a match than any other hero, maybe Bastion is close to that point.


We just want her and other F tier heroes to be viable,not overpowered.

Is it too much ask for a healthy pick- and winrate like Mercy has had since her 60HPS in Valk buff?

Is it too much to ask for Sym,Sombra,etc to not only be playable for less than 1% of the playerbase? i.e. pro play.

But no,the moment they become viable,they get nerfed to death and left in weaker and clunkier states than before.

For Sym,we aren’t even asking for major changes. Just change TP back to its temporary version,revert her PC turret damage nerf and give her slightly faster orb speed + slightly higher Lv1 beam damage.

Edit: I forgot about the old ult duration. That would be good too.