STOP asking for 2-2-2!

General Discussion
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Again, my source is Jeff Kaplan. Who is yours? I choose to believe him rather than some random guy in the forums…

Exploits are illegal and should be banned, same as toxicity. Again, if toxicity was dealt with more harshly (and toxicity is not just calling you a fatso on chat, but also instalocking disregarding team comp), I wouldn’t know people being toxic every other day just for the lols (whom I myself have reported even though we are acquainted). You won’t solve toxicity encouraging toxicity.

No, I said that in response to “At least everyone loses, not just you.” That’s “mal de muchos.” And role queues don’t help that, they forced someone playing something they don’t want before even starting the match. If you are going to punish people (not being abler to play what you want most of the times is a punishment) don’t punish them by enforcing that 6/8 times they won’t be able to play their selected role, but the optional they chose in order to avoid long queuing, or making them wait more than 15 minutes (shortest estimated dps queue by Jeff Kaplan) to be able to play for less than 10 minutes (average match length).

Doesn’t seem so, since it was you who said, and I quote “If you don’t like 2-2-2 that’s fine you are entitled to your opinion…” Again, it’s you the one who’s not understanding or ignoring what’s being said, trying to put your words in someone else’s mouth to discredit a valid argument.

Again, a better alternative would be a diminishing return in SR to one-trickers

I know for a fact that what you said isn’t true. Not only do I live it, and saw the change for the worse, but people know it’s untrue.

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I gotta disagree with you on this Wyoming.

The real issue is that forming real teams is not the best way to earn SR and climb the ladder as games are harder to find and end up often being unbalanced due to higher ranks being matched against stacks.

The most efficient way to climb right now is solo due to fast queue’s and disorganized play allowing single player carries. Which is a mistake in my honest opinion. A team game should encourage people to form teams. Climbing advantages should be given to stacking. Not the other way around.

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Maybe if it was only forced into comp it would be okay

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2/2/2 bad for Quick Play please no.

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From a flex player, your argument is ridiculous and as it stands now with how balance has to be handled it’s not even very map dependent on composition but just 1 dominant comp with maybe 1-2 passable ones, I’ll happily take map dependent compositions not to mention once the hero pool becomes more diverse it won’t be nearly as predictable.

My 2 cents.

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This is true and I agree with you here. Unless Group Priority Matchmaking is removed where a 6-stack can play against 6 solo queues, there is no incentive. However this leaves the perception of that single match to look really unfair for those who are solo queuing which seems to be a priority of the development philosophy of this game.

This is actually a myth that has been debunked by Scott Mercer.

Really Role Queue/Forced 2-2-2 will answer some of the issues that I have addressed, but not all of them of course.

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That is what they said about one-hero-limit back in 2016.

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I’ve experienced it though?

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Consistantly in every match? Have you properly documented this?

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I did not document my matchs back in season 1-4 when I attempted team stacking. But I have experienced it. Low gold getting matched against mid plat’s.

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Season 1 through 4 are rather irrelevant in comparison to today’s matchmaking. There have been too many changes since. Check Kawumbaa’s guide for details:

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As somebody who plays flex, which means tank/support because, no thanks. If I played DPS often my SR would be a slight bit higher, but I know how to team play.

2/2/2 would most likely make me quit. I have had a handful of comp games, and numerous qp games where I was done with the dps or the tank/supports and switched to that role and we won.

The most memorable one I have is Gibraltar in comp. At the time I was playing a bit of mercy. We defended first. I was Mercy with a Rein, (old) Torb, Bastion, Tracer, Zen. We ended up holding them on the ramp near the shuttle. Cheese comp and they still got half of point 2.

Attack comes I pick Mercy - rest of team, (old) Sym, (old) Torb, Tracer, Genji (2hr Genji btw who was a Rein main), and Reaper. We had 30 seconds left on first point and barely had made the bottom of the first ramp. The DPS couldn’t hit a thing and were trickling and feeding. Playing a healer was basically pointless at that point, can’t keep people alive if they trickle 1v4 the enemy or run off alone.

I was done, said whatever, went widow. This ended up with us getting the win (6dps mind you) and me having gold healing (12kish really one side), Elims, and Damage.

I’m convinced we wouldn’t have won if I stayed a healer. As a tank we may have pulled it off, but had I been locked into a bunch of people not doing their job and not being able to switch to another role I would have gone insane and the match lost.

Oh and as much as I hated it on release, bring back no limits. allows so many different strategies.

But in the end, I feel the pros, hardcore, and casual players let Blizzard down. Switching was supposed to happen, funky comps were supposed to be a thing, and certain characters were meant to be map/side dependent, but nope, people had to be reeeeeeee I have to play my fav character every game instead of learning other characters, which makes you better by learning timing of cool downs on your counters or their critical characters.

At this point give me a MH comp because I trust my skills on more than 1-3 characters.

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218

I’ve also attempted it after the LFG update to now that I think about it… same results. Around a quarter of my matches resulted in this. (guessing off memory)

Either way, even without this the experience and climbing is heavily geared toward NOT stacking.

2-2-2 will really not solve much in terms of balance or cooperative teams. I doubt it will have anywhere near the effect people think.

Here are the issues I have with it.

  • It hurts flex players. Pretty much makes them extinct.
  • It doesn’t address the one trick issue but in fact magnifies the problem as they will have locked the role (no matter what the role is) and preventing others from stepping in when they refuse to switch.
  • It prevents creative comps to the extreme
  • It ruins niche hero’s.
  • Balancing will not be easier. It will just go in a different direction.
  • It devalue’s true teamwork. Teamwork and coordination are just as much as skill in competitive as game sense or mechanical prowess.

I really do think people are asking for something under the misconception that some how the real issue will go away. Poor teamwork.

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I dont want to be stuck in any role the whole game. I been playing a long time I know which heroes I like to play. I dont want to have to play Ana because someone locked my Lucio.

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Your source was just making an exaggeration, if you are unable to see that well, thats on you. If they knew that those were going to be the que times, then they would shut down the discussion about role que a long time ago, but guess what, they haven’t because they are actually working on it and its going to come, probably not very soon knowing Blizzard, but it’s coming they keep talking about it over and over and people keep pushing them towards it more and more.

I don’t think you understood what I meant by that, I meant that what you talk about losing freedom or creativity is an illusion, because that doesn’t actually exist or happen, players will always go for the win and abuse the strongest thing possible and that is more likely to happen on a system that works like the one we have right now. Role que would fix that due to better balance, and better structure, allowing for more creativity, more hero viability, and more combinations of things that can actually work.

That’s the thing, the “mal the muchos” doesn’t apply because is not actually a bad thing, it’s a good thing, you just perceive it as bad due to your own opinion on the matter. It would be like me saying its “bien de muchos” because it is a good thing that will help the game improve and be a better player experience. It’s all just a matter of perspective.

There is nothing wrong in what I said, you are just taking it the wrong way because you are getting defensive about it. It’s like saying that I like 2-2-2 and that is fine because I am entitled to my opinion. There is no negative intent on my comment, you took it that way because of your own prejudice. I do understand perfectly well that you don’t like forced structure, and I am arguing in favor of it.

You are saying that because you have to oppose it, still what I said is the truth. Toxicity in games has been going down thanks to the efforts of the developers and the systems that they have created, only negative people who are toxic cling to the idea that toxicity is still a huge problem because that is the world that they live in, a negative one.

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Forced roles and longer queues will answer to toxicity with even more toxicity. Period. People here claim it will encourage flexing, while the description explains it way better: Forced 2-2-2 forces flexing. Either you flex or you wait 15-45 minutes to play >10 minutes. That’s forcing. And even worse, that’s passive-aggressive forcing

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Sounds like the result of players getting boosted into a SR/MMR they aren’t capable of. With role locks, the game is more likely to be a loss if everyone isn’t playing competently at their rank in their role. This is actually a benefit to the system as a whole because that player will keep dropping until they can play competently at a given rank, while their teammates will rise back up since they are competent at that level. This should result in much more balanced feeling matches and less wondering how your teammates are in $YourRankHere$. Fewer bad teammates getting carried by better teammates into ranks they aren’t prepared for is a good thing.

Since some players are great tanks and bad supports, they attempt to fill in support and do horribly. Role-Based SR and role lock fixes that problem… meaning you won’t see them in your game once the new rules have been in effect for awhile, so you won’t have to swap off of support to DPS because you have DPS who have earned your $YourRankHere$ playing DPS.

Rip the bandage off and be done with it!

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223

This! So very much this!

Couldn’t agree more

Give me yours, then. Game director said this. Who said differently? Or is it just your assumption? He was not exaggerating, he said it to prove they were far from being able to implement this garbage.

You are entirely wrong, this is not an opinion. Objectively speaking, what you subjectively call “better balance” is actually “different way of balancing”; what you call “better structure” is actually “more restrictive structure”; what you call “more creativity” is actually “less tools to create”, you alleged “more hero viability” gets immediately trumped when you realise there will be an even more restrictive and forced meta, which will in time increase toxicity against those attempting to break it: it will start being Dive, then D.Va and Winston will get nerfed and Brigg buffed, and a new hard meta will appear; and how can you get “more combinations” will less options to combine? That’s mathematically impossible

Are you really this thick? “Everyone loses” is not good for anyone! You said “if you lose you lose on equal grounds” Losing is bad! Both parties losing is bad for both parties. “Mal de muchos; consuelo de tontos” means that is idiotic to be glad because you are not the only one suffering. I won’t be happy because everyone loses. I don’t want everyone loses, and it won’t comfort me, it’s idiotic.

No, you are just entirely ignoring my point, changing it into one that serves you better.

You are saying that because you have to oppose it, still what u said isn’t the truth.

So why should we change the system to decrease toxicity, if toxicity is not an issue?

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Just because something started out one way, doesn’t mean that way is working as intended and we should never try to improve/change it.

Otherwise we’d still be banging each other over the head with rocks in our caves.

“Overwatch was designed for swapping constantly and doing crazy things all the time!!!”… well maybe it shouldn’t have been setup that way. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

“But the Devs said that…!” Well, maybe they shouldn’t have said that. :thinking:

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Jeff has talked several times about how he wanted that to be the way the game was played but it just didn’t sync up with how a large portion of the community wanted to play the game.

So he’s had to make concession after concession to mitigate their impact on the rest of the playerbase. Role Queue will just be another of those unfortunately necessary concessions.

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