STOP asking for 2-2-2!

General Discussion
1

Hey guys,

While OWL and GM’s players are complaining about GOATS, in ranks most people still think 2-2-2 is a must play in order to win. Some are even promoting a Role Queue system to enforce it… But outside of the debate on the usefulness of a Role Queue Competitive Mode, which I don’t talk about here, is 2-2-2 really the best composition for 6 random players?

I did a bit of research and use some of my stats to come to the conclusion that 2-2-2 is not overwhelmingly better than any other composition. It’s more balanced and give your team a slight statistical advantage to win but what matters the most in my opinion is how good the players are at the hero they are playing. You can play a well rounded 2-2-2 and get stomped by 4 DPS 2 healers if some of your teammates are not that comfortable with their support/tank/(DPS) character, right?

So, I believe that pushing for 2-2-2 is obsolete and can even be harmful (mindset, bad filling…) than beneficial. What do you guys think?

Check out the video I made about that for more details!

Cheers

Edit: I’m not against enforced 2-2-2, I’m just saying that, at the moment, pushing for 2-2-2 in the chats, is not that great :wink:

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You are looking at the idea of forced 2-2-2 from only the competitive standpoint, but there are other factors to consider. 2-2-2 is a preferred composition in open play because it “feels safe” especially when you are playing with strangers in the game. While it is true that compositions like Goats, Triple Tank, Slambulance, 4-1-1 and many more can disrupt the 2-2-2 and any other comps that is just the competitive aspect of it. The real problem right now with Overwatch is the toxicity factor that having open compositions in the main game modes (Quick Play and Competitive). Way too many games are being lost on the starting hero select screen because too many players want to play damage heroes and are not comfortable with either tanks and healers. So when a player is not comfortable playing a role they did not intend to play, they tend to perform extremely poorly.

Forcing a 2-2-2 will take away some of the Competitive edge that we see in Overwatch today, but it will bring a new metagame that will still be plenty exciting if there was such a restriction. Remember way back in the day, we had no hero limits for Competitive (most of the way through season 1). So there was many clever strategies, but many cheesy ones which left the game feeling pretty bad to play (especially during Sudden Death rounds).

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You completely missed the fact that role que allows people to play the roles and characters they want, which eliminates the situation that you mention and is one of the reasons 2-2-2 role que is considerably better than how it works right now.

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I might have express myself wrongly. I’m not against enforcing 2-2-2, I’m just saying that in the current state, pushing for it in chat is not that good. And I mention a few things that you are saying in my video too :slight_smile:

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I’m not watching your video.

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2-2-2 will also help Blizzard balance heroes better. Brigitte is a great example. She is amazing as a 3rd supoort, but not that good in a 2 support combo.

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Definetely, that’s one of the plus for Blizzard I’m sure. Being able to not have to balance all heroes all the time like they do.

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‘‘what matters is how good the player plays the hero’’ but the matchmaker is supposed to put together evenly balanced teams each having as close to 50% chance to win. so in theory all the players should be as good as each other.

blizzard could just publish the stats showing rank x team comp x time played x winrate and settle the matter.

the fact is in a game with so many random variables the best way to win more on average is to hedge your bets i.e evenly distribute your teams resources. that is why meta comps and meta heros are so domniant, they will have the advantage in most situations, and from there it becomes a self fulfilling propehecy.

the way to fix it is to switch to 5v5 so that team compositions cant evenly hedge their resources. the odd number means all compositions are forced to have asymettrical streanghts and weaknesses. that would make more comps viable and dampen down the effect of meta comps/heros.

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5v5, very interesting suggestion, first time I see it! Could be interesting, at least to try in arcade for a bit haha

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all the most popular games are 5v5. i think overwatch just went with 6v6 to be different

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On ladder, when people ask for 2-2-2 I think what they really mean is “please not 5 DPS”

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But isn’t Overwatch the first of his kind? I’m no expert, I think OW is somehow similar to TF2? So what games are you referring to for 5v5? MOBA’s?

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leauge, dota, cs:go, rainbow 6 siege

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2-2-2 takes the number of possible team comps down from 530,122,320 to 479,808.

That’s 1000 times less comps. That’s a HUGE thing that will help the devs balance things. Its gonna be massively healthy for the game.

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You’re going to lose all your flex players. The ones that choose their hero based on map. Based on their team’s strengths and weaknesses. Based on situation. Based on the trust that they have built up in their social group.

Everyone that is angling to climb is going to gravitate DIRECTLY to the safe bet, since you won’t even know the map before you form your comp. It’ll quickly become a stupid game of a certain 2-2-2 composition where every match is predictable, even more than it is now.

My 2 cents.

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Which absolutely positively resulted in being changed very quickly for the continuing competitive experience of Overwatch. Some people complained for a little bit but it was honestly over with half way if even that of the next season. This is also why No Limits was even created later on which caters to the niche that ended up wanting it.

If we ever do get forced role queues it will make people appreciate things more, not less, once adaptation sets in to as WyomingMyst conveys would be the new metagame.

I mean think about this… no one will even be unsure what people have to play immediately upon joining a game for hecks sake. You might adapt synergies better but you never have to guess… HRMMM… do we have a tank or healer in this game? I wonder if I need to flex…

What a down right major relief right there to play the game the way you want to play it / can rely on the fact that your team isn’t going to instalock all DPS and beg people to play the other roles.

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Nah, i’m a flex player. I’d just flex within a role rather than over everything, because i wont NEED to flex to try and be tank AND healer on a 5 dps squad anymore :stuck_out_tongue:

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This exactly… you FLEX by playing better at your role (can’t believe it’s taken this many seasons for people to not understand still that most people just want to do 1 role).

Not just that, but you can FLEX by choosing to queue and rank up as different roles and being rated accordingly to how good you are at each separately rather than fearing you can’t perform one role as well as your main or secondary one.

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Honest question. Have you played a lot of forced 2-2-2?

I have. Didn’t care for it at all, personally. TBH I found it AWFUL.

Hey, different strokes for different folks, no problem there. But if you haven’t yet tried it… you might not know what you are asking for…

1 Like
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tbh i’m happy as long as i have a tank and a dps on my team because healing 4-5 tanks is nearly impossible considering the time it takes to heal each of them and 4-5 dps heroes can’t survive serious damage (i.e. barrage)