It will improve toxicity because of better comps. Simple.
Queue times on 2-2-2 will make more flex players. Simple. Forcing people to constantly switch by messing with SR isn’t fun, especially if they dont want to switch at all. People want to play what they want to play, but be ENCOURAGED to switch, not punished for not doing it.
Core design is “its a hero shooter”, not “WE CANT DO 2-2-2 BECAUSE I SAY THAT ARBITRARY NUMBER IS CORE DESIGN!!!” You dont seem to know what core design means.
Oh, ok, so it’s not intended by design at its core for us to create new strategies within the game, interesting… “Hero shooter” is not its core design, but the broad category of game that better suits Overwatch. You are the one that doesn’t know the meaning neither of core, nor of design. And you CAN do 2-2-2 now, as you can do 3-3, 4-1-1, 3-2-1, 2-3-1, 2-1-3, etc, etc, etc…
I will increase toxicity since people will have to wait for hours or forcibly flex 80% of the time, as opposed to forcibly flexing once every 5 matches
Queue times in forced 2-2-2 will force people into flexing most of the times.
Yes, flexing should be encouraged, not forced. Forced 2-2-2 forces flexing more than any other measure. Either you flex or you won’t be able to play as much.
I was going to let you have the last word, since that’s what your looking for, but your last post was just idiotic.
Now you can have the last word.
Hero shooter is literally the core design pillar. To change the CORE design, you’d have to change it to a RTS or something. Team config is just a number. Its nowhere near the core.
Creative teams will still exist, just within a different framework with better hero balance.
You have a choice - Learn2Flex, or wait. Jeff has already said they’re going to give you rewards for trying new things. Better games = less toxicity. Sure, DPS players might get a bit sad if they cant jump into a game with a terrible team comp, but in the end, they’ll have a better game with better teams when they get in.
The que’s won’t be as long as people think and they will stabilize over time, we’ve seen this before in other games. What people forget is that a system like this not only changes the way the game is played but also player behavior, there will be a lot more people willing to play tanks and supports once they see the game experience is much better.
I mean that the combination of heroes that can happen is still huge. And as Montecristo said, there may even be more creativity and different strategies because players won’t be forced to abuse the same thing over and over again due to unbalance. On the topic of balance, it will be much easier to acheive which will also end up being favorable for the game experience.
Neither can your opponents, if you lose you lose on equal grounds. In any case this “adapting” idea, is mostly an excuse to try and carry the game by yourself which more often than not only results in an unbalanced team composition that still won’t work, at least in the current system. With a role que, players can still very much adapt, but everyone has their roles and the help of structure helps the team be more organized and work together without having people just do whatever they want and throw everything into chaos.
You are looking at it all wrong. Players will be given the option to play the roles they want with the kind of teams they want, there is nothing better than that for the player experience, which is something that rarely happens as it works right now, which is one of the reasons the “team play” aspect of Overwatch doesn’t exist for the most part. Like Emongg said once, “dont worry about your SR or ranked games, Blizzard doesn’t promote team work so as long as there is no tole que your rank is a lie” or something like that.
You don’t really seem to understand the point being made, that’s on you. If you don’t like 2-2-2 that’s fine you are entitled to your opinion, but it is a fact that in a 2-2-2 structure, many composition and combinations of heroes and strategies can happen.
Overwatch will finally become as toxic as LoL,
The levels of toxicity in LoL dropped dramatically once role que was implemented.
15 to 45 minutes, according to Jeff
Less than 1/4 than those available today. Less. That’s the point. It’s limited
I’d rather nobody loses. There’s a saying in Spanish: Mal de muchos; consuelo de tontos. Google it
As long as it’s 2-2-2
I don’t like FORCED 2-2-2, nor do I like forced 3-3, forced 4-1-1, or anything that’s forced. You are completely ignoring that I said “forced” at least 17 times in the last several posts I’ve made. It is you the one not understanding my point, claiming I don’t want 2-2-2, when what I’m clearly against is a forced structure.
Err… no? LoL is the most toxic community in gaming, and its toxicity level remains proportional to its population. It only decreases when its pop decreases, and when it goes back up, its toxicity rises again.
Forcing 2/2/2 won’t bring in a new meta. It will make Dive mandatory forever. It’s a shame that the attitude for balance has changed so much since StarCraft.
Personally I think the power of mobile heroes should be massive curtailed. Mobility should be considered the core of a heroes power, not just an extra added bonus while retaining a kit that’s still as powerful as many immobile heroes.
But in any case, with forced 2-2-2, Blizzard could actually give Brigitte teeth against Dive again, without having to worry about her being massively oppressive in Triple Support comps.
Actually, its not 1/4 of the comps available today. Old comps = 530,122,320, new comps = 479,808. It’s over 1,000 times less. That’s an AMAZING thing for game balance (but you dont seem to understand that).
Quality not quantity.
That was an exaggeration to make a point, the actual que’s would be around 5 to 6 minutes. They know the ques won’t be that long which is why they are literally working on role que, as of now. If the ques were as you say it wouldn’t even be a question. Plus again, the player behavioral change is an important part of the system, it will eventually stabilize, we have seen this happen before, people need to look past the initial consequences and have vision of the long term effects of the system.
That is relative. With the “freedom” that we have today, players still abuse the same things over and over again due to unbalance or exploits. The freedom that you talk about is an illusion. Having a structure and better balance would bring a lot more actual creativity and possibilities to the game, strategies and hero combination that would actually be viable to use.
You say that because you have a negative perspective of the system, but it wouldn’t be the “Mal de muchos” it would be better for everyone. And going back to the actual point, this adapting idea that you mention often creates another problem, like a support going DPS to “cover” the role, leaving everyone without one of their supports, just to name an example. Role que helps that these kind of issues don’t happen.
I do understand that you don’t like forced structure. I am arguing why it is better than the alternative, you are welcome to disagree.
I know for a fact that what I say is true, not only do I live it and saw the change, people know it’s true.
You call it quality, I call it a lesser game: less possibilities, less game, less creativity in both playing and development, less fun, less time playing (as opposed to more time waiting, less chances, less playstyles, less freedom (in choice and in strategies), less thinking… All in all, less quality
Again, my source is Jeff Kaplan. Who is yours? I choose to believe him rather than some random guy in the forums…
Exploits are illegal and should be banned, same as toxicity. Again, if toxicity was dealt with more harshly (and toxicity is not just calling you a fatso on chat, but also instalocking disregarding team comp), I wouldn’t know people being toxic every other day just for the lols (whom I myself have reported even though we are acquainted). You won’t solve toxicity encouraging toxicity.
No, I said that in response to “At least everyone loses, not just you.” That’s “mal de muchos.” And role queues don’t help that, they forced someone playing something they don’t want before even starting the match. If you are going to punish people (not being abler to play what you want most of the times is a punishment) don’t punish them by enforcing that 6/8 times they won’t be able to play their selected role, but the optional they chose in order to avoid long queuing, or making them wait more than 15 minutes (shortest estimated dps queue by Jeff Kaplan) to be able to play for less than 10 minutes (average match length).
Doesn’t seem so, since it was you who said, and I quote “If you don’t like 2-2-2 that’s fine you are entitled to your opinion…” Again, it’s you the one who’s not understanding or ignoring what’s being said, trying to put your words in someone else’s mouth to discredit a valid argument.
Again, a better alternative would be a diminishing return in SR to one-trickers
I know for a fact that what you said isn’t true. Not only do I live it, and saw the change for the worse, but people know it’s untrue.
I gotta disagree with you on this Wyoming.
The real issue is that forming real teams is not the best way to earn SR and climb the ladder as games are harder to find and end up often being unbalanced due to higher ranks being matched against stacks.
The most efficient way to climb right now is solo due to fast queue’s and disorganized play allowing single player carries. Which is a mistake in my honest opinion. A team game should encourage people to form teams. Climbing advantages should be given to stacking. Not the other way around.
Maybe if it was only forced into comp it would be okay
2/2/2 bad for Quick Play please no.
From a flex player, your argument is ridiculous and as it stands now with how balance has to be handled it’s not even very map dependent on composition but just 1 dominant comp with maybe 1-2 passable ones, I’ll happily take map dependent compositions not to mention once the hero pool becomes more diverse it won’t be nearly as predictable.
My 2 cents.
This is true and I agree with you here. Unless Group Priority Matchmaking is removed where a 6-stack can play against 6 solo queues, there is no incentive. However this leaves the perception of that single match to look really unfair for those who are solo queuing which seems to be a priority of the development philosophy of this game.
This is actually a myth that has been debunked by Scott Mercer.
Really Role Queue/Forced 2-2-2 will answer some of the issues that I have addressed, but not all of them of course.
That is what they said about one-hero-limit back in 2016.
I’ve experienced it though?
Consistantly in every match? Have you properly documented this?
I did not document my matchs back in season 1-4 when I attempted team stacking. But I have experienced it. Low gold getting matched against mid plat’s.