State of Roadhog, a Tank with no purpose

First of all, Roadhog is not terribly bad. He is not a troll pick. He is not completely useless.
But he lacks purpose if compared to other tanks, there is literally no real reason to play him. There is no situation when your teammates would say “Hey mate, you should go Roadhog!”. Okay, except Illios Well map.

Roadhog has a very obvious weakness - he is a giant walking easy to hit ultimate charge sponge with zero mobility. And this weakness is okay by itself, but it is not justified by Roadhog strengths. Because he is not strong at anything. He has nothing worthwhile in his kit to pick him over other tanks.
His defining ability is his Hook. Without Hook Roadhog would be not Roadhog at all. And yes, Hook has some usefulness, it can be used to interrupt some ultimates, or to ruin momentum for heroes like Hammond. But it is not something that cannot be done by a lot of other heroes. More to say, heroes like McCree or Mei or Brigitte - all of them are also very good at something else, there are a lot more reasons to pick them. It is always a safer bet to pick them for DPS slot instead of wasting Tank slot for Roadhog.
Outside of Hook Roadhog offers nothing special for his team. His Take-a-breather is good ability, but it is only useful for Hog himself. His ultimate is nice in some situations, but it is not very powerful and cannot be considered as game-changer. His weapon is terrible by itself and was only kinda okay at bursting down barriers with RMB, but there are a lot of other heroes that can do it better. Oh, it is also was secretly nerfed on PTR.

Guess what? I think that it is fine. Hook should be a defining thing for Roadhog. Hook should be a main reason to pick Hog.
And here we come to the main point of this thread:

Roadhog should be able to consistently and reliably instakill hooked targets with 150-250 health.

“Woah-woah Shonbz, we don’t need that, we already struggle with Briggite, Doomfist and Widow! No more cheesy instakills please!” - you may say.
But lets talk about instakills for a little bit.

Instakill as mechanic is absolutely okay for action games, but only if properly designed. Ability to very quickly or almost instantly kill target is a high reward that should cost a lot. It should be either very risky to use or require higher skill and/or more effort to perform.
For example, Widow’s instakill is fine because it requires much better aim than other heroes. McCree’s Flashbang+FtH instakill is fine because it is tricky to land and either punishes enemy for bad positioning and/or puts McCree himself in a risky position of close combat. Mei freeze combo requires time and to be in very close range to enemy. Brigitte is required to waste all of her CDs for a single target and she is very vulnerable during Whip animation. Doomfist Rocket Punch has a preparation time and very noticeable animation and sound while it is also puts him in risky position. But all of these examples have one common thing: if everything is done right it rewards player with kill.
So what about Hook?

Hook is very easy to perform. It has a high projectile speed which feels almost like a hitscan. It has a pretty huge hitbox. It can be used from safe position. It does not need preparation.
But is does not guarantee a reward. Hook itself is very buggy and inconsistent, so even if you perfectly land it on enemy it does not mean that you will pull enemy to you because chain frequently breaks for various reasons or not reasons at all (see this thread [MEGATHREAD] Fix Roadhog's Hook! (5 Cases, 18 Video Examples)).
But even you perfectly land Hook on enemy and even pull him to you it does not guarantee a kill thanks to inconsistent spread on Hog’s weapon. The problem is that reward from Hook combo depends not on Hog player skill, but purely on luck and randomness.
Hook should be designed in absolutely opposite way. And here we cone to the second point of this thread:

Hook should be harder to use and require more skill and/or effort to successfully perform, but reward should be reliable and consistent.

This can be done in various ways, I want to suggest only one of them:

Scrapgun:
I don’t want to suggest accurate numbers, because it can be done is several ways, but the goal is to adjust damage and/or spread so Hog can reliably and consistently one-shot hooked 150-250HP heroes.

And the most interesting part:

Chain Hook:

  • Base range decreased from 20meters to 7meters
  • Hook is no longer launched instantly
  • Pressing and holding (double tap is optional) Shift now starts wind-up - Hog starts to spin his chain like a true maniac
  • Every 0.5 second of spinning increases the Hook range by 7 meters, up to maximum 21 meters
  • Releasing Shift (or second tap if Double tap option is on) launches Hook
  • Hog can spin hook infinitely
  • Hog can move with 30% reduced speed while spinning
  • Hog can freely aim while spinning
  • Spinning can be interrupted by enemy CC, or if Hog shoots or uses other abilities
  • Spinning has loud metal sound that alarms enemies that Hog is dangerous
  • Of course numbers could be tweaked. For example, initial range can be set to 5 meters so it increases by 5 every 0.5 seconds, so max range achieved in 1.5 seconds instead of 1 second. And maybe some tweaks of CD would be needed.

So what these changes do for Hog?
First of all, he still would be able to instantly interrupt someone, but instant Hook would be limited to 5-7 meters (on par with other instant CCs like Flashbang or Shield Bash).
Spinning alarms enemies with sound (similar to how Doomfist works) and gives them a little bit more time to react, while also rises skill floor for Hog player. It makes Hook more fair and skill-depended, but it also justifies the huge power increase for his weapon - with more fair Hook instakills would feel more fair and deserved.
And it perfectly fits Hog fantasy. After all, he is a murderer and spinning chain with metal noise and some creepy voiceline would perfectly fit his menacing fantasy.

So what do you think about these changes? What changes would you do to improve Roadhog performance and viability to put him on par with other tanks?

7 Likes

That winding mechanic is interesting for sure but my concern would be how telegraphed his hooks would be.

I just want to feed less, myself.

i think that,leaving aside all the roadhog problems you mentioned and a lot more im not gonna explain because that could take like a 3 pages of text, the main core problem of roadhog is that the devs put him in the tank category but they dont really know what role he should fill.

If he has no tank habilities for HIS team, he should be put in the dps role (with less hp and hitbox) and reliably kill 200 hp heroes(250 is wrong imo). But the problem is he is in the tank category.

Roadhog woul be an excelent tank if he was like Makoa of paladins(cant post the video sorry, you can google it),shielding or leaving a shield aura with his e ( even if he can never oneshot a 200 hp enemy).

They had a really good oportunity with the rework to make him a viable and fun tank and they ruined it,because they still dont know what role they want roadhog to fill/ where afraid to try new tanks mechanics.Putting a hero a lot of hp only doesnt make you a tank, it does make you an unkillable ult battery.

Not every tank should straightforwardly protect teammates with shields or other stuff. I am sure that Hog should not be a protective tank. He is a bruiser, a tanky, but slow heavy damage dealer. And he should be balanced to fit that role.
But currently he is not dangerous enough to be considered as bruiser, while also not protective enough to be considered as real tank.

3 Likes

you dont even need him on illios.

he is only needed when you wanna break barriers and play with orisa the halt-hook combo (what people dont do on low elo and his hook is buggy. so yea)… but orisa is also niche.

he is a tank that no one fears…

No, I want his bugs fixed such as random LOS breaks, and His spread to be consistent. Then he gets 1 extra shot and give 25% less ult charge if damaged.

And revert his current change on PTR.

1 Like

This. And this is very ironical, because this should be his original purpose.
He does not protect teammates. But he creates safe space by his own presence. Enemies should fear him and his Hook. Fear and respect.

2 Likes

Problem with Hog is that he FEEDS TO MUCH, is just a stupid bad game design, how in the world you reward the enemy team by just EXISTING?.

2 Likes
  1. fixed shotgun spread
  2. hook stops all momentum instantly
    small changes that will help. still won’t be much better though
1 Like

This and LOS fixes and he would be perfect, it’s not even a huge change to his balance, it’s just fixing him.

I really don’t like the direction you’re looking to take him (basically reverting him, but with a channeling time on his hook).

Hook is interesting for one core reason: It moves people really far. If everyone you hook dies instantly after being hooked, then the ability is no longer interesting, because the fact that you just pulled them 20m out of position is completely irrelevant.

I went into more detail on this in an ancient thread, back when the popular discussion was about how to nerf Roadhog:

1 Like