Some Sym changes to make her good and not OP

You must understand, the XYZ,ABC are components of good team play.

In any solo queue game, the components of good team play may not exist. When team play is weak, for any hero, it doesn’t mean it’s time for a buff to be more independent.

I provided my reasoning earlier in the thread… :point_up:

you answered neither of my questions and not even the most important one:

how much of “needing teammates to actively make up for the hero’s weakness” does a hero need to have before they’re considered weak and needing balance changes for you?

like if there was a hero that had reaper’s shot guns but infinite ammo and ult but no abilities nor passives, would you still say they’re just “niche” and “team dependent” according to your logic? like you can totally make it work with double shield or some kind of deathball comp to team pocket it as it w+m1… :expressionless:

like if we look at the rest of the cast that aren’t struggling with viability, do they suck up as much team resources as sym does? no, because they actually do have a reasonably good mix of sustain, effective range, mobility and burst in their own kit for their role, even the supports.

and they have that good mix to ensure that they can individually put out a reasonable amount of value because most people solo queue i.e. most likely won’t have high teamwork.


I answered your questions. You are too blind to see it.

Our mini debate is over.

Bastion can do up to that damage.

Yes with massive downsides and it’s all he can do when he does it and he’s immobile.

No way should we do that kind of damage!

Is that what that was? Sounded like you had no good answer so threw a toddler tantrum.

If a hero needs mega coordination to be as good as a hero who doesn’t need that, she’s lacking. The devs have also admitted to trying to make heroes less team reliant so we feel more impactful in our play. This is directly contradicted by their infinite TP patch.


oh and before I forget.


Yes, excellent. That’s the post I was referring to along with the other one I linked earlier.

Too bad Zman will just ignore it and tell you to swap off Sym and disregard two posts from Jeff.

Nice quote, what a team player. :unamused:

yet she has THREE turrets. Makes no cents luv

i mean to be fair she has triangle/“three” themes everywhere

the points of her gun
the back of her gun/side of her gun
the triangle she makes in her poses
her side head-fan thingies with the blue jewels and then the one on her forehead
the 3 bumps on her shoulderpad
one could even argue tank/heal/dps back when she gave everyone “tank” health and “regenerating” health and barrier with a decent amount of damage

the list literally goes on for quite a while but you get the point

60/120/180 still follows the rule of 3, and it adds up to 360

but, i mean, yea, 60dps on her primary still doesn’t fit the game, itself

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The problema Is the teleport, not the damage. It is top much less impacted in the game and often the people ignote It very well. Or they use it only as a respawn taxi.

Isn’t a problem of beam.

never thought of that. Very enlightening. Thank you! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

having a good mix of sustain, mobility, effective range and burst for their role != abandoning team work.
teamwork comes from the player, not whether you have crippling weaknesses in your kit.

just look at the supports:

  • mercy has shorter ranged heal but has really high mobility to zip to teammates to heal them without needing them to wait for her unreasonably. she also has regen to self heal because she has to zip around to heal the ever high demanding team. she has a pistol if she can’t fly to someone too for self defense
  • lucio aura is fixed around him, but he has speed boost and wall ride speed boost to get himself near allies rather than demanding allies to slow down for him. lucio even has amp which gives him burst for heal/speed once he arrives so he can be more reactive.
  • ana and zen have no mobility, but they have long enough effective range for both heal and dps that wasd is enough and so the team doesn’t have to deathball pocket them like current live sym.
    • similar can be said about bap tbh
  • brig’s packs are given range because otherwise team will have to anchor themselves closely to brig for any healing or peeling from her. she also has her boop being ranged for the same reason.

and do they have no teamwork in their gameplay just because their kits actually have reasonable capacity to individually get things done for their role? obvs no.

they all have a good mix to not constantly suck up too many team resources, i.e. not be a constant liability.

sym, does not have such a mix, and that is a problem.

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1 and 2 are good, don’t like 3

bad hitboxes are really dumb weaknesses (see zen) and making her better uncharged shouldn’t dramatically break her damage

Why. This isn’t any different from the normal teleporter

Yes it is. Currently the cooldown only begins when the tp is destroyed.

This change turns a guaranteed 12s downtime between uses into 6-12s.

Arcadium’s tp:

  • time to next cast = 12s + [(uptime that’s > 6s) - 6s] (just 12s if uptime <= 6s)
  • experienced down time if uptime > 6s = 6s + (uptime - usage time)
  • experienced down time if uptime <= 6s = 12s - usage time

better than current in all aspects. worse than old 3.0 tp but realistically only the use cases needing (6s, 10s] uptime of old 3.0 tp will be nerfed comparatively to old 3.0 tp. for me 6s uptime was about my median with old 3.0 tp so I’ll feel the difference. But the difference will be <=4s assuming I optimally destroy tp.

personally, a 7-5 split might be better than a 6-6 split of the cd, but the idea itself is a significant improvement.

I like infinite TP. Opens up new team strats.

Old TP was selfishness, nothing to help the team, just Symetra.

Team, “Sym may we use your TP?”
OLD Symetra, “No :triumph:, TP is mine. I want to use it to tp turrets and myself.”

TPing turrets is such a boring, old strat.

Not even remotely true.

Unless all you want is a spawn TP that’s just a scuffed version of Sym 2.0 TP.

With old TP there was a guaranteed uptime to it if not destroyed. Now, with the cooldown, I’m MORE selfish if anything because I will destroy the TP right after I use it to get the colossal cooldown going.

With old tp you still TPed the team across a choke or out of grav so this is just a fake complaint.

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Lol I miss not having to aim as Symmetra. It was always fun melting sweaty Genji mains trying to flank me.