I have 500 hours on Sym 3.0 but if Sym 2.0 came back with healing, throwable turrets and her current wall I’d be happy.
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She wasn’t nerfed because she was “Strong in a meta that she was designed to counter”. Symm was never purposely made to counter barriers. At the time of her rework, sigma didn’t even exist.
The reason I think the devs are listening to doom players more is:
- Because there are more of them
- Doom is more fun than symm is, in most people’s opinion - maybe not to play against, but certainly more fun to play. It’s why there’s barely ever been any symm players. She’s boring to most.
- The devs want to see something floaty and fun to watch in a meta - it’s better for OWL views. Symm isn’t fun to watch.
- Most people who moan on the forums and “Suggest” balance changes, don’t know what they’re talking about. Whether we like it or not, the devs know more about the game than we do.
- No pro players rioted over symm changes because none of them like symm. However many pro players were unhappy with the doom nerf, saying it was too much. Devs want to make the pros happy, cause thats where the money is.
I don’t like doom. Nor do I like symm. Most people would probably be happy if both of these heroes were trash tier, except obviously the people who main them.
In my personal opinion, I’d rather see more doom than symm.
Just accept that this game will never be balanced properly, so long as OWL still exists. The devs can’t make everyone happy - which is what they’re trying to do now, and it’s not working.
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Maybe for you. But sometimes when I die I smile. Other times I rage. Turrets are always rage times. As long as Sym has multiple slowing, damaging turrets, a large swath of the playerbase will hate her and make it difficult for Blizzard to buff her.
If your hero isn’t hated, your hero is weak - Blizzard balance logic.
Turrets are rage times, because they aren’t players? Is it that frustrating to die from something, other player placed, anticipating your move?
Turret doesn’t have high damage, really fragile, and has distinctive beam for you to track back to it. Or it’s just “oops, I messed up” frustration, that you stepped into wrong place and now die?
Yes, they (devs) want you to quit. No need viable Sym.
Where did i mention losing? No one cares about dying in the game if they’re dying in a fair fight. People care about oppressive abilities. What you’re stating is based on your feelings. What I’m stating is based on history of how this game is balanced. If the majority finds a hero oppressive because of an ability, they will get reworked, adjusted, or nerfed. Majority is usually always correct when it comes to the enjoyment of a product. If majority is unsatisfied that product goes out of business. It’s simple logic. You’re giving anecdotes. Most people who complain about mei have no means of escaping her, tank players…
I think you’re missing my point. By advocating to buff heroes who are oppressive (be it lowskill or highskill heroes) you’re effectively begging for their rework/nerfs. If the majority of game is not having fun playing against those heroes the game loses its playerbase, loses its word to mouth advertising potential. Just look what happened when Brig got released. Eventually devs want to fix this and they go to extreme measures to do so, rework the hero, or nerf it to the ground. This is how literally every single instance of this issue has been dealt with. Reserve your personal feelings for a second and look at the facts.
Maybe you don’t, but I care about dying, regardless from way it happens. So I am unable to understand, what makes dying from turrets so special.
As for Mei - that’s what we got for team-reliance: DPS supposed to kill her, before she gets too close, but usually don’t do that.
There is no such thing as “fair” death: you supposed to handle your enemies by any means necessary. Being ambushed isn’t “fair fight” at any way, for example.
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I wished it was true…
(and no not just true for gm)
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Luckily, unless it’s a smurf, Doomfist isn’t that big of a threat at lower tiers.
I hear this btw for every 31 hero in the game…
I kinda wonder why we even have the other 2 roles…
Other 2 roles are keeping frontline, so DPS have something to return to. Instead of having smiling enemy team right outside of spawn room.
You can say, that tank and support are forward base of your team.
So i agree with your 1st statement, but for this the 2nd one needs to be true too.
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You mean about forward base? Yea, it’s not Russian TF2 servers, where mandatory attribute of any long-term game is 2-3 teleports on both attacking and defending teams. So neither side could just steamroll another and had to progress step by step.
Guess Blizzard really wanted games to be quick.
I meant more, that the 1st argument is valid, the 2nd one has to be valid already.
Like i can’t focus on mei if the enemy tanks are free to run ham in our backline.
If they aren’t, i should be able to take care of her.
NEWSFLASH: I’m one of them. I know what I’m talking about.
Tp’s role in the combo and orb’s effective range
Like first off why do you think tp’s needed in that combo esp when higher up? because turrets only have 10m detect range? no.
to deliver turrets safely? well that’s a small part of it, but there’s a much larger reason.
It’s because orb is what gives the combo its burst. turrets are only there to help secure the kill after the orb-melee 150damage burst. are you going to consistently land your 25m/s orbs that need 1s charge up further away? no.
at 25m away targets have 1 whole second to reactively dodge a fired orb i.e. if they see you fire, no amount of prediction can make you land the orb better because they have the time to dodge. the further away the more room the target has.
Only at like 15m the room is 0.6s. Hence why I say her orbs are ~15m in effective range, because that’s about where aim starts to not matter as much as luck. And THAT’s why you need tp for the combo, because it brings sym in a range where her aim matters to land orbs more reliable to burst, i.e. for orbs to be effective.
For reference, genji’s shurikens are 60m/s and even they’re saying it’s slow for them. Mei’s icicle is 115m/s and pharah’s rockets are 35m/s.
How far they need to be for their targets to have 0.6s time to reactively dodge like 15m for sym’s orbs:
mei icicles: 69m (much past where ashe’s scoped falloff range hits bottom which is 50m)
genji shurikens: 36m (just longer than tp range)
pharah rockets: 21m (just longer than mccree’s falloff start range)
Are you going to say genji and pharah have infinite effective ranges simply due to no falloff yet despite the FACT that if they try shooting at a target from literally the other side of the map they’ll have very little consistency in landing them due to how much time there is for the target to react and dodge them?
like do you think sym orbs, genji shurikens, or pharah rockets are equally effective in any range?
like unless you have a reaaaaally long game, or if you/your teammate(s) can force that target to take your orbs, you’re highly unlikely to get 15-20 orb kills from safety. In the case of a reaaaaally long game, most likely other dps would have gotten for more in that game.
Turret’s effective range
Throwing them from further away makes them more telegraphed → more easily and likely to be destroyed before they can do anything. Just because you can put it up somewhere far away and leave it up there doesn’t mean the hero’s effective range is infinite. like are you going to say junkrat’s got infinite effective range just because he can put a mine and trap anywhere like turrets and leave them up? Like each turret has 10s cd so they’re very static → have to commit to their placement for a good chunk of time → can you really use that as a justification for saying the hero has long effective range with static location and angles while the hero’s weapon itself is more available but has low effective range?
Overall Effective range of the combo vs others
First off, tp’s range is 35m i.e. the combo you’re referring to can’t have an effective range that’d exceed 45~50m (+10 from turrets or +15 approx for orbs), that’s obviously not the “largest in the game” when you consider snipers who have neither falloff nor the inconsistency of orbs at long ranges.
not to mention this combo has a really long down time esp if using all turrets. i.e. “yay a CHANCE to do something. a moment later oh now I need to wait >=12s outside of effective range before I have another CHANCE to do something”
vs other dps heroes (including sombra and mei) who don’t have >=12s chunks of down time and quite often they can get themselves in and out of their effective ranges simply by walking due to long effective range or by their movement abilities that don’t wait until they disengage entirely from the fight to start ticking their cd away.
so again, can you really say that a combo that’s so infrequent makes sym have a long effective range?
So given all that, what makes you say sym has the “largest effective range in the game”?
the tp-orb-melee combo isn’t all that consistent as it very largely depends on your dive target and their position relative to their team. pretty much any aoe ruins turrets and is a large burst on sym herself going through tp which would likely mean she’d have to tp back immediately and her combo fails. any cc definitely ruins her combo too and make her immediately retreat back.
compare this with other heroes: mccree can double tap 200hp targets from afar (more safe than sym) within about 1s with likely about the same consistency too, soldier can kill 200hp heroes in about 1s too with the help of his rockets. ashe can kill you in 1~1.5s depending on whether she goes for a hs + another shot or dynamite + shot, snipers OHKO’ing from afar, df burst combo’ing with high mobility and bulk from shields, etc. they all have less risk involved, same if not better reward.
and all of these heroes don’t have a guaranteed >=12s waiting period before they can try to do it again.
so again, my question, where is the “fairness” for sym? how is asking for changes that use the pre-infinite tp sym3.0, who was empirically shown to not be OP nor oppressive, as a benchmark “unfair”? how is it us the ones “crusading”?
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It’s ok… Zarya is still a better Symm… Play her.
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From experience, people hate sym because of her turrets.
I don’t think she needs them anymore. I think if we yeet her turrets out of the equation, we can buff everything else.
Im thinking something like this
Teleporter:no longer lasts forever, lasts 5 seconds, has no base, so cant be destroyed, and deploys like her ult, so she just does a hand gesture, and it pops up like a reaper teleport (loud, time to react, but not too much time).
New ability, she could get her old throwable shield back. This would help her survivability, and since she doesnt have her turrets anymore, we dont have to worry about getting slowed while she beams us down.
Gun: increase the range by a bit. like 1-2 (idk what her range should be). Since she no longer would have slowing turrets, she would need more range, and maybe a bit more damage.
weird Idea, just think about it, her secondary fire. if you fire it without charging, aka spamming it, it peirces shield, but does very little damage. it would let Sym finish off the critical health people hiding behind barriers, but it does small enough damage that it’s not that good otherwise, but if you fully charge it, its the normal explosive, no shield pierce.
I don’t think that was the intention or the result of his design at least when I play against doom my fun is not destroyed its usually the same
lol! This post is trash tier nonsense.
Symm was oppressively OP. Needed to be nerfed. If they need to bring her back up to a bit more balanced, so be it. But they don’t “listen” to some, and not others. They will make the decision based on their years of experience in making games.
Stop tryin to make it seems like the developers are being “biased” towards their own game. That’s just idiotic.
I still wonder, when did Symmetra suddenly become overpowered and oppressive.
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