NEWSFLASH: I’m one of them. I know what I’m talking about.
Tp’s role in the combo and orb’s effective range
Like first off why do you think tp’s needed in that combo esp when higher up? because turrets only have 10m detect range? no.
to deliver turrets safely? well that’s a small part of it, but there’s a much larger reason.
It’s because orb is what gives the combo its burst. turrets are only there to help secure the kill after the orb-melee 150damage burst. are you going to consistently land your 25m/s orbs that need 1s charge up further away? no.
at 25m away targets have 1 whole second to reactively dodge a fired orb i.e. if they see you fire, no amount of prediction can make you land the orb better because they have the time to dodge. the further away the more room the target has.
Only at like 15m the room is 0.6s. Hence why I say her orbs are ~15m in effective range, because that’s about where aim starts to not matter as much as luck. And THAT’s why you need tp for the combo, because it brings sym in a range where her aim matters to land orbs more reliable to burst, i.e. for orbs to be effective.
For reference, genji’s shurikens are 60m/s and even they’re saying it’s slow for them. Mei’s icicle is 115m/s and pharah’s rockets are 35m/s.
How far they need to be for their targets to have 0.6s time to reactively dodge like 15m for sym’s orbs:
mei icicles: 69m (much past where ashe’s scoped falloff range hits bottom which is 50m)
genji shurikens: 36m (just longer than tp range)
pharah rockets: 21m (just longer than mccree’s falloff start range)
Are you going to say genji and pharah have infinite effective ranges simply due to no falloff yet despite the FACT that if they try shooting at a target from literally the other side of the map they’ll have very little consistency in landing them due to how much time there is for the target to react and dodge them?
like do you think sym orbs, genji shurikens, or pharah rockets are equally effective in any range?
like unless you have a reaaaaally long game, or if you/your teammate(s) can force that target to take your orbs, you’re highly unlikely to get 15-20 orb kills from safety. In the case of a reaaaaally long game, most likely other dps would have gotten for more in that game.
Turret’s effective range
Throwing them from further away makes them more telegraphed → more easily and likely to be destroyed before they can do anything. Just because you can put it up somewhere far away and leave it up there doesn’t mean the hero’s effective range is infinite. like are you going to say junkrat’s got infinite effective range just because he can put a mine and trap anywhere like turrets and leave them up? Like each turret has 10s cd so they’re very static → have to commit to their placement for a good chunk of time → can you really use that as a justification for saying the hero has long effective range with static location and angles while the hero’s weapon itself is more available but has low effective range?
Overall Effective range of the combo vs others
First off, tp’s range is 35m i.e. the combo you’re referring to can’t have an effective range that’d exceed 45~50m (+10 from turrets or +15 approx for orbs), that’s obviously not the “largest in the game” when you consider snipers who have neither falloff nor the inconsistency of orbs at long ranges.
not to mention this combo has a really long down time esp if using all turrets. i.e. “yay a CHANCE to do something. a moment later oh now I need to wait >=12s outside of effective range before I have another CHANCE to do something”
vs other dps heroes (including sombra and mei) who don’t have >=12s chunks of down time and quite often they can get themselves in and out of their effective ranges simply by walking due to long effective range or by their movement abilities that don’t wait until they disengage entirely from the fight to start ticking their cd away.
so again, can you really say that a combo that’s so infrequent makes sym have a long effective range?
So given all that, what makes you say sym has the “largest effective range in the game”?
the tp-orb-melee combo isn’t all that consistent as it very largely depends on your dive target and their position relative to their team. pretty much any aoe ruins turrets and is a large burst on sym herself going through tp which would likely mean she’d have to tp back immediately and her combo fails. any cc definitely ruins her combo too and make her immediately retreat back.
compare this with other heroes: mccree can double tap 200hp targets from afar (more safe than sym) within about 1s with likely about the same consistency too, soldier can kill 200hp heroes in about 1s too with the help of his rockets. ashe can kill you in 1~1.5s depending on whether she goes for a hs + another shot or dynamite + shot, snipers OHKO’ing from afar, df burst combo’ing with high mobility and bulk from shields, etc. they all have less risk involved, same if not better reward.
and all of these heroes don’t have a guaranteed >=12s waiting period before they can try to do it again.
so again, my question, where is the “fairness” for sym? how is asking for changes that use the pre-infinite tp sym3.0, who was empirically shown to not be OP nor oppressive, as a benchmark “unfair”? how is it us the ones “crusading”?