From everything I’ve watched and read, it appears as if the rework addresses basically nothing. Hog is still hard countered by Ana existing, he basically got the one shot combo back, he deals way more damage than he’s supposed to and the trap seems like it’s better used as a one shot enabler rather than the aoe CC it was supposed to be.
Are we going to return to S2 Hog/Kiriko vs Orisa/Ana?
Yeah he deals more damage now, but you forgot to mention that he also dies faster.
He deals more damage but is squishier, they basically made him more into a DPS.
Isn’t that a bad thing, though? I thought the entire reason for the rework was to make him fit into OW2 as an actual tank.
Yea they kinda missed the mark lol.
I can see the Trap damage reduced but Breather needs a buff.
Your concept of “Actual Tank” is from MMORPGs, not Class Based Shooters.
Huh? Most tanks have some kind of damage mitigation that allows them to protect their teammates and create space. Rein has shield, Sigma has shield and absorb, Dva has matrix, etc. The only heroes so far that don’t really stick to that rule are Ball and Doom, and even they have ways of creating space through being a constant threat at close range. Hog just seems like old hog. A guy who stands at mid range and picks off people unfortunate enough to enter his range. He falls over immediately when engaging and has no real way of protecting the team.
Are you not aware of what Class Based Shooters are like?
Hog was all-or-nothing before. Miss a hook and you’re screwed, get your vape interrupted and you’re screwed. Now he has much more options to keep himself alive and dispatch enemies. His gun is no longer near useless without the hook combo, his trap lets him contribute to the fight with or without the hook, and his vape is no longer a giant cathedral window of opportunity to punish him since it’s on a resource.
Come on, not every rework needs to be Sym-level.
I’m fully aware what they are. What I didnt understand is the point you’re trying to make when heroes like the ones I mentioned exist. Current hog has no business being a tank outside of his size and HP bar. All of his abilities fit a DPS.
Hog is still hard countered by Ana existing
Wasn’t the point and honestly a weird thing to even mention. If they wanted to deal with how powerful anti is they would touch anti, not buff every tank instead. Also due to take a breather being on a resource it actually makes the match up against Ana better. Because Hog doesn’t have to commit to burning the whole ability. Thus baiting out Anti early and still being able to exist up front.
Requires much more player execution than it did before. As before the only difference was if hog had to step in or not. Now he needs to hook into trap into shot. Think of it like how Sombra technically can burst down people potentially better than pre rework. But she has to commit a lot more to it. Same goes with Hog.
The trap like the rest of the kit increases Hog’s capability to create space. The rework took Hog’s identity/gameplay of being a hero that creates space and doubled down on it while adding more versatility and peeling back extremes. They did the same exact thing with Sombra’s rework.
No making him into a DPS would’ve required a lot more change to his kit. He’s the same tank he’s always been.
Tank as a role in OW2 is not just being a damage soak. JQ was the first original tank they made for OW2 and she is more of an “off tank” like some of our older OW1 tanks. If anything that should be a sign to you that your understanding of what tanks are is incomplete.
But really though. People misunderstand reworks and their intent. Not everyone of them is designed to push the character in a different direction. Sombra and Hog were done to double down on their identities in a healthier fashion.
No they don’t. No DPS has as good of self sustain as Hog does. No DPS has as much CC as Hog does. The devs flat outsaid CC is tanks usual gimmick. You not only fundamentally misunderstand roles in OW but lack the basic concept that roles are not rigid rules in this game. They are guidlines to help a player understand the kit easier.
Think of Hammond, he doesn’t have defence for his team, and primarily gets value from messing up enemy positioning.
Is Hammond not a Tank?
I’m not calling him useless or bad, I’m just not sure if this rework addresses the main reasons why it was made in the first place. To me it feels like he got buffed back to his early OW2 days with a survivability nerf. It doesn’t address the Ana hard counter, it doesn’t address the Orisa hard counter and it doesn’t address his reliance on Kiriko if either of those are present.
That’s your problem. You were wanting the rework to do something it was never advertised for.
Perhaps you’re right. I’m ready to eat my own words and apologize if I’m proven wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time and it won’t be the last. I just really don’t want to see a repeat of the Hog vs Orisa meta from a couple months ago.
should never be hard counters, ruins gameplay forcing people to play certain heroes. and is not what makes a competitive game.
I’ll wait a few days before judging. It doesn’t look like it’s much of a change on paper.
I don’t know if that will be a thing since I do not keep tabs on metas anymore. I’m only here to speak on the reworks themselves or a Hero’s potential health. I’ll need to see Hog more to speak on the latter but as far as the former is concerned I think they did a good job.
I disagree as not all hard counters are bad. See the Classic Winston vs Reaper match up as an example as a good one. Far as the rest of your statement goes regardless of how strong or weak a match up is metas will be formed based on value of a hero which often includes synergy.
Top level play does not include as much swapping unlike regular play. This is because those players are strong enough execution level wise that swapping isn’t going to gain them a big enough advantage to win in most cases. At best a swap is done to try and break a choke to make one strong push before a match is over. Not as an immediate response usually.
All this to say if there is a very bad match up you won’t see that in top play because the Hero’s value is more than likely not enough to warrant it. Thus counter picking isn’t as prevalent. Tis why metas for OW1 were incredibly stale. Game had been solved.
I’m not a Hog player, but I picked up Hog after the rework. And even I can tell that his playstyle is much more different than before. There’s a lot of nuance with Pig Pen, and one shotting isn’t as reliable without it. So you really need to have a plan on who you will hook and how you will do the hook, especially while on the attack, since you can’t throw down the Pig Pen first then Hook into it, you need to have it ready to use it at a moment’s notice
I don’t even know what they want him to be exactly.
I kind of feel like nothings really changed overall. He feels a bit better, but Ana + Mei are still slow roasting him with lots of herbs and spices. Buts its only been like 2 hours or so, so… you know.
Keep the costs down and primarily make hog playable so they can sell more hog skins.