You gave no reasoning as to why it would be less fun other than that it’s harder. You said that they don’t have help from a backup tank which again just makes it harder.
Another benefit that was mentioned in interviews and on the forum was in regards to how it changes the feel and pace of the game, something that they may consider for the sequel.
I also loved it as a Reinhardt/Wrecking Ball player.
My hammer swings actually felt like I was swinging a giant hammer with the damage buff.
See above.
The game should be equally challenging for all roles.
Pretty confident 2-2-2 was for a couple layers of reasons not just 1.
GOATs was probably an actively observed contributor
Competitive complaints was another one (a very ongoing one).
High rank complaining about poor matchmaking with full DPS mains or full boosted support mains.
Low ranks complaining about 3+ DPS in teams making a poor experience (solo healing or tanking).
Roster was expanding and hero synergies like Brig were becoming inevitable with development.
You don’t have the total player numbers for tank, DPS, or support so you can’t deduce whether any of those player numbers have increased or decreased.
DPS always reading “10+ mins” confirms exactly one thing: that anyone trying to play DPS has to wait 10+ minutes, and that was not the case pre-2/2/2.
My personal experience is that yes, I have stopped playing comp. Most of my friends have, in fact, stopped playing OW. When we did play together none of us would pick DPS because it would add significant wait time if even one person selected the role. People lose interest when they never get to play 50% of the hero roster. That “who’s going to tank/support” game of chicken everyone hated has simply been moved to the menu screen, and 2/2/2 didn’t fix the fact that no one wants to tank - which is ironic considering that GOATS was one of the big reasons for implementing 2/2/2.
Here’s what I always wondered though… With a mindset of a player aiming to try their best to help and win the game… Aiming to play a DPS character, how many games would they honestly get to play that DPS role?
Matches would run what 10-30m? You get back-to-back games losing that game of chicken because you’d rather win games and fill. Wouldn’t that mean you potentially wasted more time?
Unless (of course) you started with the mindset of, “I don’t care if we only have 1 healer, I’m playing (DPS healer). Guess we’ll lose.” Could you say you honestly played the character in a game, or just technically?
Sorry, it just sounded oddly similar to why I slowly stopped playing LoL to almost entirely. When I wanted to play one hero, a huge discouraging point was knowing games were 20-50m long. So with no guarantee I would get time to play the hero I wanted, I just stopped playing.
Sure, I could get stuck with support or jungle and decide, “Nope, I’m still playing Twisted Fate. Guess we’ll lose,” but that didn’t really mean I effectively played the hero, just technically.
I don’t dislike tanking or healing and I don’t view either as a “waste of time.” 2/2/2, however, has proven inadequate from a player service perspective - at least in its current form. Why? Because it can’t meet demand.
If they want to stick with 2/2/2 I believe they need to shift some of the DPS heroes into the other roles. In particular, I think the more specialized roles like Sombra, Symmetra, and Torb could be tweaked and shifted into the support role to promote more support variety.
But honestly 1/3/2 was the most fun I’ve had in the past 9 months: I was able to select all 3 roles and get a mix of all 3 roles. Doing so under 2/2/2 will net me exactly zero DPS games. But 1/3/2 also felt much more like classic OW as there was more space, less healing, and fewer shields to deal with - a far more “open” feeling game IMO.
And… Just another baseless generalization which has nothing to do with this topic whatsoever.
Just sad…
Nope. Very large amounts of overall survivability due to high healing was a “problem” much before 2/2/2 role - lock was even a thing…
That’s literally the first take of this kind I’ve ever seen this far. Everyone else has been saying that Tank/Healer buffs are necessary in order to bring more people to the two roles.
It was necessary for obvious reasons, but not just due to 4/5 DPS ““comps””, not even just due to unstable comps in general…
Would love it if I had a link…
Swapping/Flexing within a role is still a very viable and useful tactic. This myth has been dead for months now…
As for the lack of diversity, it certainly did happen, but only as a necessary and natural side - effect of the system…
And to be honest, someone did the math when 2/2/2 role - lock was introduced and said I think that the number of team combinations decreased from a couple hundred of millions to a couple of millions, which doesn’t really seem like a huge problem to me to be honest…
My favorite games are literally Overwatch, Halo and Rainbow Six Siege.
Please don’t tell me what games I’ll like and play.
Why, because of 2/2/2 role - lock?? Lmaoooo!! That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in months!!
That’s not what I heard…
Just another baseless claim, I’ll move on…
In your personal, subjective and anecdotal opinion… For the 1000th time.
I’m not assuming absolutely anything… Here is my evidence, as if I haven’t copy - pasted this exact same thing hundreads of times already:
In one of the latest Developer Updates Jeff Kaplan himself said that 2/2/2 role - queue was overall a “positive” change.
Here are some official developer quotes that were released a couple of months ago:
And even more importantly, here’s the point where the overall very positive opinion of the majority of the game’s player base is touched upon:
I have to admit this isn’t such a trustworthy source, but just the fact that the grand majority of the unofficial polls created in social places as historically negative for some reason as these Forums have surprisingly shown 2/2/2 role - lock to be a clear winner amongst fans, with the different concensus sometimes even touching 3:1 in favor of the system really says a lot …
Now, do you have any actual evidence that even remotely challenges all of the above??
Yeah… I don’t think so…
Aaaaaand, just another baseless generalization… That’s probably the most I’ve seen in a single post before
Insults now I see?? How much more sad can your situation get already??
Rightfully have been nerfed to the ground since their release, next…
Pure lies, nothing new… Next…
The ““unacceptable”” 15 minute queue times that you yourself have been quoting for your past 4 posts disagree with you…
10th baseless generalization so far, mixed with a couple of insults… Once again, nothing new…
Judging from what I’ve just read… The irony in this statement is just beautiful…
Totally agreed… We can just make anecdotal conclusions based on how stable, or not queue times have been throughout these months.
I truly, truly hope you’re not trying to say that the queue times are a product of the lower population and not an inherent and natural side - effect of the fundamental design of 2/2/2 role - lock, because really if you really do believe this then I don’t really have anything else to say here…
I respect this opinion of yours, how respectfully you’ve presented it and I’m really sorry this has been your experience, even if it doesn’t align with mine nor any of my friends’ experiences with the game since 2/2/2 role - lock was released…
I believe the queue times are the product of a solution that did not account for who the game’s customers actually are - whether it was willful or not, only the devs can know.
But they must have known that there were far more DPS players than tank and support - even just looking at the breakdown of the hero roster would have suggested that:
DPS heroes: 51.5%
Tank heroes: 22.5%
Support heroes: 26%
The DPS role will naturally attract far more players for the simple reason that there is hugely more variety in the DPS role; people definitely have most-preferred heroes even if they’re willing to play others. This is primarily why I feel 2/2/2 was a failure, because Blizzard fundamentally changed the game by enforcing 2/2/2 but did next to nothing to facilitate changes in player behavior regarding hero picks. If the game quality was poor due to too many people playing DPS, restricting DPS to 2 and doing nothing else to attract those players to tank/support was basically a giant middle finger to a big part of their customer base.
Your reply overall along with this paragraph especially form a take/viewpoint that I can certainly understand and respect as a personal opinion…
But, since the only other option would have been for the devs to once again undermine everyone else’s experience in order to cater to DPS players (as it was seen with the failed 3/2/1 experiment) that happen to represent the majority of the player base, so therefore I can only admire personally this decision from the devs…
While they didn’t “fix” those problems, it’s still better than the alternative, imo. I’d much rather pick up the healing slack on a DPS-heavy Moira and have 2 beanbags walking around (one that can heal himself and the other bubble a couple seconds of damage) than try to heal up a team of 5 squishy DPS.
the addition of roleless competitive to the game today is another step (like the 132 experiment) of the developers admitting 222 didnt quite work as they’d hoped, without explicitly admitting it
Exactly, being chased round by 3 DPS and being repeatedly killed can be challenging to the point of frustration, oppressive and not fun for the person being chased, especially if you have less tanks to protect you.
The 1/3/2 experimental card wasn’t even much of a gameplay experiment considering that they made big changes to D.Va, Roadhog, and Zarya, tweaked the shields on the other tanks, and left the balance of the other 23 heroes untouched. Just like when they released 2/2/2 and didn’t walk back the anti-GOATS buffs they’d given to heroes over the previous year, the test of 1/3/2 was half-baked at best.
It was, however, a success with regard to queue times. I queued for all 3 roles and got a mix of all 3 roles. Played nothing but that mode for the entire week it was up.
I understand the whole “we have to make the tough decision because our customers are playing our game wrong” mentality, but like I said before, they didn’t give any of those DPS players any reason to change other than to avoid a negative consequence (long queue times). It’s the customer service equivalent of “some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make.”
It still remains the most thoroughly - conducted experiment in this games history, while what you describe doesn’t change the overall conclusion from this test in the first place…
I mean I can’t say I completely disagree with any of this… Like with every different perspective, yours, mine, etc., large and small disadvantages will always exist…
It’s true that the 3/2/1 test was a moderate success concerning queue times (and I say that because Tank queues got really bloated as a result).
Despite that, it’s true that the developers could have done a lot of things in order to make the few actual problems that exist with 2/2/2 role - lock be less severe, such as better Tank/Healer balance, more heroes of said roles, etc.
But for the most part, they have failed miserably on doing the above…
Well after the 1-3-2 experimental mode, we now have Classic Comp back. Seems they’re aware 2-2-2 just isn’t as popular as you’re saying it is and are looking for answers to it.
The longer tank queues occurred for about 1 day while everyone wanted to try the “new” tanks. Like I said, I queued for all 3 and got all 3 throughout the week.
Many people judging 1/3/2 a failure have pointed to things like not enough protection and too much damage as reasons why. Those are things you can fix by properly balancing the entire roster of heroes around the existence of 3 DPS instead of 2; of course the mode will be unbalanced if you tune heroes based on a maximum of 2 but then allow 3. Based on that, I don’t feel it’s correct to say the mode itself was a success or a fail, but it did work from a queue perspective.
I know. Been playing it and its great. So much more fun and freeing. If we need a healer I can heal. If we need a tank i can swop to tank. If dps is lacking i can dps. It is so freaking nice. Sadly I feel like if I rank up in open que people will say that doesn’t count because its not true comp or some bs like that.
