Oh, flankers and mobility definitely need to be tuned down. This isn’t a balance issue, it’s an issue of direction and fairness.
If their direction is “we’re putting CC in tanks specifically” and then they remove all sorts of smaller CCs, but then they let Ana keep her CC, which is literally the best one in the game, because “it gives her big plays”… that’s pure favoritism which is toxic to balance.
Which is why Brig is losing her melee-ranged .75 second stun, yes.
You’re kidding with this, right? I’m a tank, which is who the sleep dart hits 99% of the time and I can tell you it is faaar from the “most oppressive CC in the game”. What does it do? Sleeps you for few seconds. Oh no, not like any kind of damage instantly wakes you up or anything. This ain’t a flashbang or freeze that you can pump damage into. You get slept before your team goes in? Big deal, you just wake up. You get slept in a teamfight? You get instantly woken up by any random damage. Ana sleeps by herself? Great, now she has to escape, cause she’s got no damage. The only way it might be an issue is if you are out of position. If you decide to dive 1v6, get slept and then the whole enemy team groups up to your location, that’s on you, no one else. But if you’re anything that isn’t a big hitbox tank, Ana’s probably gonna miss you anyway.
And as a tank, it’s your job to be tanking damage for the team, meaning you should be right by them. Not my fault you roll into enemy spawn as Hammond and are shocked to be slept.
You realize you can pump damage into someone who is sleep darted for a full 1.5 seconds while they’re still stunned, right? Even if you never stop shooting the target, sleep is a 1.5 second stun
And you also realize that Flashbang only lasts .7 seconds, right?
There’s no world in which FB is somehow more damaging than dart. It actually lasts just as long as Mei’s freeze, even if someone shoots you through the full duration.
Oh, and pretending that being asleep for 5 seconds in the middle of a fight is “no big deal” is extremely disingenuous.
You clearly don’t understand how to tank effectively if you think that it involves sitting on top of your team all day long.
A good portion of the tank roster REQUIRES that you are playing off angles, flanking, or diving if you want to be effective.
Brig is losing her stun because its Brig and loud minorities that stan e-celebrities love to claim Brig is the root of all evil.
Geoff Goodman loves CC though. I’m surprised we managed to get Freeze and Bash out… That’s a miracle already.
Sleep needs a minimum duration reduction and range limitation at the very least. Which of course it won’t get, so fork us, fork tanks, it’s just this team’s M.O.
FB is AoE and extremely easy to hit, on a hero that literally can oneshot all DPS heroes alone without any kind of help at all.
SD is a small projectile on a hero with low damage that needs to use all she has to maybe kill a Tracer in the 1s or so she has as she wakes up, including melee hits.
It is, but that’s not the problem for sleep dart. Ana has no mobility, and relatively crappy weapons to fight with up close. She’d have to waste her nade in a fight she’s probably losing anyway if she didn’t have sleep dart, which is bad game design of course.
If Ana loses sleep dart, she’d still need a buff to her survivability, and honestly I don’t think you guys would like that anyway. The narrative would shift from “Sleep dart oppressive!” to “(whatever ana gets) is oppressive!”, and at that point we might as well just keep the dart.
Often times on here, people like to lean back on the “this character HAS to be garbage!” lie when it comes to Ana. This is stupid; no character has to be bad, and any game designer that intentionally makes a character bad and unable to function is a terrible one. A character can have aspects that are bad, but they’d need aspects that offset that.
Zenyatta has no mobility, but has a TON of damage to straight up fight even tanks depending on your accuracy and use of map geometry. Are we suggesting Ana should be like that as well?
I hate Ana.
Sleep, Nade, and Nano are all too good. And she has Quickscoping and unlimited range. And 200hp. And a small hitbox.
Sleep should be 4 sec MAX. Anti should reduce healing not deny it, and only increase ANA’S healing. And Nano shouldn’t activate through enemy shields.
There’s an Ana in EVERY game, and if Anti stays like it is, shield tanks /Zarya will be mandatory.
I hate Ana.
The forums will really not shut up until Ana is gutted 
I would strongly disagree.
For example, Bastion has to be bad because if he’s ever good it would be the most unengaging gameplay on the planet. If kits are poorly designed they just can’t be good for the game’s sake.
How about just a sleepdart with no wakeup animation lock, 2.5s max duration, and 9s cd.
Inversion dart. All controls get inverted for 5 seconds.
Yes make Ana even more of a sitting duck
But Bastion’s not bad. He has two modes of combat, and self healing that enables him to play like a traditional FPS character or a stationary turret. He’s only considered “bad” as a way to denigrate his gameplay.
There’s no poorly designed kit in the game though. Maybe individual players may dislike kits, but you can’t point to a kit and say “objectively speaking, this is a poorly designed kit”.
man lol i want to play that hero. the ultimate troll ability, puts sombra to shame lol
wonder if they make that an ability for a new hero someday heh. be almost as good as wow priest mind control
He’s bad in the sense that he’s not viable without a bunker comp supporting him.
Yeah, you can pretty easily. If a hero has to sit in irrelevance, never picked because the moment they do they’ll be nerfed back into the ground or the community will cry out against them, they have a poorly designed kit.
I’m against nerfing heroes to the ground (and I love all support heroes equally) but I agree that Brig’s treatment is unfair. Countering ults with shield bash required skill as you need to be both fast and have a good game sense (and a good enemy ult charge track).
People keep saying that we should keep anything that allows smart plays so Brigitte should at least keep some sort of CC even if it’s on a longer CD so she is allowed those smart moves again (or else the hero is boring).
I also agree that sleep dart should be less effective on the single tank or else he / she will become the constant target, especially if the enemy team doesn’t have an Ana in their team (poor Winston and Hog, they will be sleeping a lot :p).
As far as anti-heal nade is concerned, the best option would be to limit its effect on 2-3 players max but I guess since we’re already down to 1 less player per team, it should be fine as it is. It seems like the game will require more spreading around the map and using more space than usual so maybe Ana’s nade will be less effective that it is in a 6 V 6 setup, we’ll see.
One thing is sure, don’t expect a perfect balanced game (if such thing even exists) during the beta, for those who will get the opportunity to access it. It’s just a glimpse of OW2 PVP will become. It’s far from being ready and they need us testing it.
I’m pretty sure OW2 Ana will likely need to be saving her dart for flankers/dps rather than wasting it on a tank while dps barrel down on her with one less tank to peel for her and likely no support peel either. This is likely the reason they’re keeping it. Supports, even if the damage heroes are toned down (which I doubt because the entire goal of these abominable changes to the game has always been to reduce TTK and speed up team fights), are going to have a hard time keeping anything alive and staying alive themselves. Sleep will be an escape tool for Ana and nothing more.
That’s true, removing Ana’s sleep dart won’t fix anything. It will only make things worse as her sleep dart is her only way to survive when someone dives her. She doesn’t have mobility so we can’t leave her with nothing.
That being said, Zenyatta might need a mobility buff or some kind of cc to survive…
That’s true but other supports need those too. Mercy has high mobility, Ana has sleep dart, Moira can fade, Lucio can boop and Baptiste can jump pretty high (even though it’s the crappiest escape button from them all).
Zenyatta and Brigitte will need something on OW2 PVP for sure, Baptiste too if they keep nerfing immortality field. Let’s try to be fair with all of the existing support.
Edit : Whip shot is getting nerfed too, right ? No more booping ?
I agree, though at least Brig has a shield and is very brawly up close. It’s always a little terrifying 1v1ing a Brig as a flanker with no heals on me. Zen is definitely gonna feel that pinch though unless he has aimbot precision on his headshots. Maybe if he could, idk, propel himself upward with a powerful robo-fart or something to dodge, who knows. 