Honestly I agree with you, mercy was my first hero that I tried after symmetra as I was completely new to the fps genre and she was hard at first and got even harder as I put more time into her for the fact that she was easy to pick up but hard to master, I was constantly targeted more than the others and with no protection, I had to use my abilities to survive which is hard enough. The whole no skill vs skill is really dumb because people just use the no aim equals no skill to the fullest like it’s the most hardest skill and the only skill.
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Way to completely overlook what I’m saying. Aim isn’t everything, but you’re dumb to think aim isn’t why players like carpe or pine are where they are.
“What’s the point of learning a high skill hero if…” – An Entitled Child
You want to know what the point of learning a high skill hero is? The addition of another hero’s unique abilities to your toolkit, which, in some situations, may allow you to outplay a team that gets countered by those tools.
You want to know what the point of learning a low skill hero is? Same damn thing.
You know which hero a really skilled player would learn to play? Both. After all, it takes far more skill to play a large variety of heroes, including but not limited to aim-intensive heroes, than it does to play just aim-intensive heroes.
That’s why the game needs to be balanced, with both types of heroes given a place in the meta.
You don’t deserve free wins just because you play a hero that uses mouse precision. Overwatch is a lot more than that. If you can’t figure that much out, well, I can see why you’re salty.
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As a McCree main, no this just simply isn’t the case.
Higher skillcap heroes are by default better than low skillcap as there is much more room for counterplay. Its why no matter who is being played, it is still possible to run Tracer if you’re skilled enough.
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Blizzard, at Blizzcon, either 2014 or 2015 confirmed that “low skill” heroes was going to be as valid as “high skill” heroes.
If someone don’t like that, they are obviously not paying attention.
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Not really sure if Tracer/Genji have the smallest model hitbox compared to other small dps like junkrat and soldier.
Regardless, Tracer/Genji have to played at close range to be effective where their model will be bigger than a McCree standing 20m away from the enemy. It’s silly to say their model size is forgiving just like it’s silly to say ranged heroes are forgiving because they can keep their hitbox small by staying away. Not to mention they will also take less damage due to fall off damage and/or spread. Does that also make them “forgiving” in that sense since this ranged advantage makes them take less damage?
“Being able to disengage after a bad dive” well, ranged heroes also have a better chance of disengaging (again due to the range advantage), and they are very easy to avoid damage if they play around los.
You can’t just look at model size in a vacuum without considering the play style of close combat heroes like Tracer and Genji vs others heroes who are ranged.
Utility is a great way to put it. What makes Overwatch engaging for me is the interplay between the heroes, how one character switch can change the dynamic of the battle. Knowing how your abilities fit with different characters’ utility, being able to quickly figure out how the dynamic of the game would change if you made a switch is an undervalued skill.
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Private profile on your side aswell.Must asume you’re some kind of one trick.
Just a joke m’bro
All i can say is dont use ‘high skill’ heroes if your not yeilding the reward that a ‘low skill’ has to offer. If you play anything that isnt a Doomfist or Hanzo as DPS your wasting your time because support is the superior class.
I don’t know where people heard this 35 dps for brig but that is not true I’m pretty sure it is nearly 70(nearly 2 swings per second) you can check wiki or in practice range on training bots if you don’t believe me. And 70 dps is nothing to scoff at when there is zero aim requirement and the only condition is being close which she can cover easily with sheild bash or just putting up sheild and walking as the movement speed reduction is not much.
It’s 1 swing per 0.6 seconds, so it takes 1.2 seconds to swing twice. In one seconds time she swings only once. In 12 seconds she swings 10 times. The disparity grows larger as time passes.
So in reality, you’re right, it’s not 35 DPS if you look at the long term, it’s slightly more, but not quite 70.
Across a whole minute of non-stop M1 she does 58 DPS. Which is 8 damage more than Moira if she only used her biotic grasp (no orb). In fact, Lucio’s avergae DPS (Assuming no headshots, only bodyshots) is 64 if he only uses primary fire (Reload times calculated as well).
So Brigs M1 DPS is rather low.
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Skill is related.
Having 3 blinks and one of the smaller hitbox of the game makes you hard to hit, far more than a Orisa, for example, thus for Orisa be alive, she needs to be more skilled than you in that departament.
you know, i actually kinda agree with you. a super easy hero should not be dominating a super hard hero, usually.
on the other hand, if you can make an easy/simple hero work against a hard/complex hero because youre just SO good at them, then that is a skill of its own.
i think the core of the problem is still the narrow definitions of “skill” people have. skill is the superior knowledge and ability to do a thing. what you guys usually mean, though, is “effort”!
like, if i put in the effort to learn a harder hero, the effort should pay off in the end. and if i put in the effort to make a simple hero with limitations work, that effort should pay off, too. but that is not intrinsic to hero design, but depends on the skill of the player.
like, you can beat a genji with mercy. is it easy? no. so mercy is the harder hero in this duel (it is just an example). she is simpler, since she only has the gun and melee, but genjis complex kit gives him much more to work with. but he has the advantage.
so who needs more skill? more effort?
the player with more limitations? or the player with the more complex but ultimately stronger kit?
its not so easy, really.
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I’m really just tired of people thinking that they’re entitled to wins or should almost never get countered because they personally chose to play a more mechancially demanding hero.
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on that note, i forgot something:
just because you pick the more mechanically demanding hero who has more potential, doesnt mean youre gonna win. maybe, just maybe, you simply suck, and thats why you cant unleash their potential and win. maybe your counter isnt OP, maybe youre just bad. just saying. could be wrong, just something to consider.
and in that case, the more skilled player won.
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carpe and pine are not where they are just because of their aim or mostly because of their aim.
Theres reasons why carpe and pine were not winning as much, they have great aim but they and their team lack game sense and positioning and teamwork that other teams have way better of.
You can be an amazing aimer but if a barely worse widowmaker has better game sense that widowmaker will win most of the time
Im still shocked how nowadays this argument is still going on.
The main flaw no one addresses is that the hero and the user are detached but they do define each other. Just use the classic “Me vs my clone” scenario.
Me Junkrat vs My Clone Mcree. Should My clone always win because he is using the “high skill” hero? - NO
Now Me and my clone have good aim. Should My clone win MOST of the time by using Mcree vs Me? YES. Why? Because the high skill hero enables my clone, who knows how to aim, to get more impact for my skill.
The hero doesnt determine the result, is YOUR skill.
If YOUR skill is not high enough to get the average impact with a high skill hero, then you WILL LOSE vs low skill heroes that are doing average and above.
Just because you play a high skill hero, you dont have more chances to win, you have to EARN IT.
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I think what people forget is that even though Overwatch is technically an fps, it is not your usual fps, where getting more frags doesn’t doesn’t mean a guaranteed win if no one plays the objective.
Yes, I do agree that Mercy used to be op in the past but now she has been nerfed into the ground. But this is also precisely why the devs keep reworking heroes and rebalancing them, their goal is to have all the heroes equally viable and that Overwatch matches come down to whichever team has the better composition and counterpicks… assuming the players themselves are of almost equal skill.
But I think that is what is the root of the issue here is “skill”. is it solely the ability to aim and land headshots? Or is it positioning and avoiding damage? Management of ults and cooldowns? Teamwork? Creative use of the hero’s kit? For a game as complex as this, I would say all of the above and more. No one should expect to be able carry the team with purely good aim.
Imo we have a paradox here.
We have low skill heroes because we have high skill heroes. If you add high-skill hero and make him lets say “The Tank Killer” with high skillcap then you basically create a way to dominate enemy team and only option to counter him - find same or higher skilled player.
When you need to destroy a tank you need to pick an rocket launcher instead of giving assault rifle to another person who knows everything about it and can shoot with his eyes closed. Same with OW. If you master one hero you can perfom better vs heroes he meant to counter and also can compete with some that not really meant to be his targets usually and rest of them you still want to avoid.
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Yeah see if aim wasn’t the number one requirement behind a lot of high skill heroes you’d have just said worse, but you threw “barely” in there because you know perfectly well it means the world for most DPS heroes. There’s a reason in OWL they analyse Widowmaker critical hit accuracy more than anything else for those players.
Also Pine is where he is 100% off his aim. His gamesense is complete dogshiit but that’s fine because he’s in the top 5 hitscan shots in the game. Carpe is a little smarter but he still throws himself into frontlines as Widow and just pulls it off through raw mechanics.