Sick of the 'Play Better' Argument

Competitive Discussion
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I was grouped up with a Diamond smurf last night. In bronze/silver games. He was getting entire team wipes as genji: And yet, we’d still lose. At one point I died after Nano’ing him, and I watched as he took out 4 players on the enemy team - meanwhile one tracer and a doomfist took out four of our players. (Who had the longer run back.)

Then other games, we decimated that other team like they were standing still. Repeatedly. This tells me it was a completely unfair match. How is a Genji with stats like that in bronze/silver? You’re seriously trying to tell me that the system can’t detect: "Oh, this guy played like crap in his placements but now he suddenly has insane stats. Then the stats drop like a rock again. Then they sky rocket again.’? Yeah. Right.

Just because someone is in bronze/silver doesn’t mean that they’re stuck there because they belong there. Case in point, I have another account where I placed (And I stay) Diamond.

I can’t drag this account out of bronze/silver.

I can’t support my way out of it because the DPS and tanks are practically brain dead. Being positive does nothing, no one is in voice chat, nor do they listen. They don’t care to utilize ults correctly, they are oblivious about positioning, I watch the healers run into one another and then run in circles any time they hear a Junkrat tire coming. No one ever tries to point out where it’s coming from so it can be destroyed. They just run around like frightened little cockroaches.

Telling someone to ‘play better’ when it takes a team effort is redundant, completely unhelpful and in the end: Doesn’t. Matter. Much.

Of course improving yourself will improve your odds of winning. No doubt about that: But saying someone is always losing because of them is stupid and untrue.

How many times on these forums have people posted a VOD for review and I’ve seen the higher ranked players tell the person:

“You lost that game for your team with what you did right there.”

Oh… wait a minute. So the Soldier who has 61 eliminations, that yesterday you told to ‘get gud’ didn’t make his team lose? That Moira DPS’ing made the team lose? Which is it, bucko? Did the soldier need to ‘get gud’ or did the Moira lose the game for them by playing poorly? WHICH IS IT? Does the Soldier need to ‘get gud’ or does -gasp- YOUR TEAMMATES HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT?

This is a: ‘You can’t have your cake and eat it too’ scenario. Either the people this horrible matchmaker puts you in with matters, or only YOUR performance matters.

-Stop pretending like the matchmaker isn’t broken.
-Stop pretending like it takes stats into consideration when matching someone.
-Stop pretending like it takes win/loss ratio into consideration when matching.
-Stop pretending like someone’s personal performance is why they lose, taking the light off of the matchmaking problem. It’s by far the worst it’s ever been.

EDIT: STOP PRETENDING LIKE PUTTING AN 1800 SILVER PLAYER WITH AN 850 BRONZE PLAYER IS FAIR MATCHMAKING.

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If you can’t drag an account out of a rank, then you just aren’t good enough and are where you belong. That diamond smurf you were paired with would pull an account out. He may not keep a 100% winrate, but he’s certainly not going to stay trapped in that rank.

Instead of killing four players, maybe you should have killed the Tracer and Doomfist?

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There’s your problem and your answer.

So instead of “play better/gitgud” just play smarter.

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It is a complicated issue that has points on both sides. The Genji example is perhaps killing the enemy team in the wrong order. The win condition seemed to be the Tracer and Doomfist.

As a fellow support, Mercy’s damage boost is the agency for her to push her team beyond the enemy. Learn what/who/where your team is doing damage and apply the boost.

The competitive mode in Overwatch has been quite the topic as of late. Whether it is what it needs to be or not, just focus on getting fun/skill/both from the games you participate. It is easy to feel oppressed by the mode because we have a low rank, but just try to have fun and not think about the elitists.

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How do you know the genji was a smurf? how do you know they threw placements then have great games then bad games then great games making their stats jump all over the place?

If you dont know these things for sure just play the game. If your account is “stuck” in lower ranks and you cant get out, just accept it and play your other diamond account (which without any proof of i bet doesnt exist)

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Stop dying and blaming your team for sucking. If you want to drag your account out of bronze/silver, then die less and support better.

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If the matchmaker has correctly calibrated the smurf’s MMR, then it’s definitely possible they were smurfs as well, as it will put smurfs against each other where it can.

Which is where MMR comes in. He’ll be placed in higher matches and have higher SR gains, it just takes time.

I’ve never once seen a bronze/silver player that deserved to be diamond. Link your other account please.

I don’t know what you expect. Bronze and silver are literally the worst tiers. Of course they’re practically braindead.

It is, however, completely true.

The soldier may have been the best player, but he didn’t play well enough to win. It doesn’t matter if you perform the best on your team if you don’t do it consistently enough to win games. Of course the Moira would’ve contributed heavily to the loss, but it’s up to the soldier to play better than her and the enemy team. Remember, the Moira won’t be on your team forever. Certain games are unwinnable, and others are unlosable. If you can’t win the ones in between (that come down to your own performance) you won’t climb. Simple as.

They both matter. In the long run, however, it’s only your own performance.

It’s not perfect, but it’s certainly not broken.

It takes some stats I believe - where MMR comes in.

It used to do this I believe. Think it either doesn’t at all, or only does it below diamond now.

Perhaps you should stop blaming the matchmaker and look at yourself. If smurfs can climb easily, why can’t you? You’re effectively a diamond smurf in bronze right? My main’s diamond right now and I can’t keep any of my accounts in plat even if I tried.

Tl;dr: it’s not the matchmaker, it’s you. You’re the only constant in the equation.

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Support better, or just dps your way out…

It’s easier to kill crap players than support them.

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OP you don’t have to be sick of the play better arguements. Just don’t. Leave sweating to the sweaty and have fun!

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I made a a Reaper OT account and it placed low gold(Yes I was trying)

The season ended so I took a day to watch guides and high level play on Reaper.

I jumped back in and by literally applying my new knowledge + holding W I clikbed from 2100 to about 2700 in 30 games at about a 80% winrate.

It was so sad.

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I’m a dps main who hasn’t played Ana since she was released and I recently took a bronze account to mid gold (before I got bored, not because I got stuck) playing dps only Ana. No healing. Not only does this mean my team was often not healed at all or was basically solo healing with a zen, Lucio, or brig, it took one of the best hero’s in the game away from the team.

So I have a really really hard time believing someone can’t get out of bronze or silver if they aren’t a really bad player. In bronze people just stand still like bots. I would just walk around and get picks and that got me to 2300. I’ve also taken a bronze account to 2800 before my first loss. Literally 100% win rate from 900->2800.

I was mid masters season 4-10 or whenever brig came out (tracer/genji main) then I stopped playing my main. Now I just instalock dps every game and take the loss when there’s 4-5 dps (instead of playing Zarya or hog to make the comp right) and hover mid to high diamond and even that modest of a rank can 100% win rate 900->2800.

If you can’t climb out of bronze you’re bad. Simple.

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not true, ive done bronze to gm with ana

you can climb with literally anything as long as they’re viable

i healed “worse” players than myself, if you keep a below average rein alive longer than the below average rein on the enemy team, you will win easily

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YMMV.

I had a 60% win rate with Mercy in silver and couldn’t climb due to broken Pbsr.

Found that I’d get more sr as Torb just banging on my turret all game and doing nothing else.

(This was back when Mercy had multi rez and you were supposed to get quad rezzes rather than keep your team up).

I think that they’ve fixed it now though.

I did climb to 2500 last season with a 60% Lucio win rate. Supporting gets easier as I climb as my team aren’t actively opposing me by going all over the map.

But, when your team of 4 instalock elite dps can’t kill 1 unpocketed enemy Pharah, you’re going to want to be playing an impact hero. Ana’s good here I guess. I don’t have the mechanics to play her well, and I don’t trust my teams to peel for me.

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I my experience, it seems the more i improve, the worse teammates i get for the sake of some sort of “even match.”

I literally changed my mouse settings, saw a big improvement in my own accuracy and gameplay.

Yet i feel like now i have teams that can’t even group up. Sitting at the same rank, or having even worse losing streaks full of the worst teammates you can imagine.

So… why did i even try to improve? Maybe i should just sit there and do nothing, still get the same rank like these other idiots.

It’s ridiculous.

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stop pretending playing deathmatch on a map with objective wins you games just because you get the most kills

you have to take advantage of those kills too

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This is literally what you have to do to get better. Learn from top players. I remember watching a guide by WizardHyeong (NYXL’s coach in S1) and he mentioned that his assistant, a plat/diamond Ana, climbed to masters in two weeks simply by watching and analysing Ryujehong’s play. In addition, when I myself watch Necros, Kabaji or Dafran before going into comp, I find myself to perform far better because I pick up little things I can do to make my play better from them.

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i don’t get people who think they are entitled to climb but won’t do anything to improve

how does that work?

comp is not a social welfare system where you get SR just for showing up

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So you have diamond acc which is staying in diamond while you cant climb from bronze/silver? Good story mate. Too bad its probably lie :slight_smile:

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I’m a diamond support main. I maintain Diamond and I’m close to pulling out of it. So your theory is utterly crackpot and baseless.

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Proof?

Show me a formula supporting this?

Show me how every game the variables are the same.

Don’t @me. Ill be back.