There is ZERO reason for usage to reflect popularity here. You pick a comp mode and there is nothing saying one is more real than the other. People are given two choices with equal rewards and equal incentive and choosing their preference. People just do not want to play OQ. If anything OQ is more incentivized because you are being given a shorter queue (usually) and people still wont pick it.
3 Likes
They obviously are.
Invalid data is invalid because you claim that it’s invalid.
We get it 
Do you have any valid data to support the claim that the meta has any effect on the preferred mode of the player base?
Do you have any valid data supporting the claim that Open Q players of all regions except Korea are so confused and disoriented that they are unable to find their preferred mode in the game menu to a degree where it heavily affects the official usage data?
No.
It’s an informed opinion based on a whole bunch of data points that all point into the same direction.
3 Likes
this doesnt solve the problem
the problem is “I wish to play dps” not “I wish to play a non-dps character”
you can indeed go play role-less queue
but – same as above - its doesnt solve the problem, and doesnt meet the need/want
and
since the two modes are not identical aside from the queuing methods, the one isnt an equivalent replacement for the other
not at all
they are entirely different data
for example, usage is numerical and preference/popularity is not
not at all
data is valid or invalid on its own merits or the lack thereof
my personal feelings on a given matter have no impact on whether data is valid or invalid
the statement I replied to was “there is not a single hint that the player behavior has changed significantly since then”
I have not made any statements of the sort described in the quoteblock above
not at all…it was and still is a guess
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If usage and popularity percentage for the same modes are very similar then there is a - you guessed it - similarity 
Just because usage and popularity data aren’t necessarily similar doesn’t mean that they can’t be.
So you are insisting that the official usage data is invalid and that the close similarities with basically any poll out there are purely coincidentally and have totally nothing to do with people simply playing the mode they prefer?
You are avoiding the question.
Then why do you keep pointing out that the Ranked Open Q mode was in the Arcade?
not at all
the comparison above is taking one type of invalid data and comparing it with another type of invalid data
comparing invalid to invalid
not sure why this is even being discussed, given that invalid is simply…invalid
they aren’t similar types of data at all
as I said, one example of many - one is numeric and the other isnt
this is not what I stated
the data, while old and dated, is valid in the context of a question like “what was the overall usage of each given game mode on date x/y/2020?”
but that isnt the question being addressed in this thread and others like it
its invalid in the context of a question like “what is 222’s popularity relative to role-less queue” for reasons already stated…which is how the forum users pushing this data are trying to use it as
I see that question as moot, as it is a comparison of two different types of invalid data…a comparison that should never logically be made, but yet is being made over and over again in these forums
not at all
my response stands for what I replied to
after reviewing said set of statements, my reply stands…I made no such statements as were attributed to me in the set of statements I replied to
Because you insist that the official usage data which supports the accuracy of the poll results is invalid - which it isn’t.
If the usage data for one mode is ~60% and the popularity data for the same mode is also ~60% then there is a similarity.
Just to make a list of all the stuff that needs to apply for you to be right about the data being wrong:
-
a really high amount of people in all regions except Korea have to play a different mode than their favorite one, despite their favorite mode being available
-
or the usage data has to dramatically shift towards Open Q due to an so far unknown reason
-
nearly all the polls except (again) for the official Korean youtube poll have to somehow completely misrepresent the player bases opinion
-
there needs to be an explanation for the Open Queue Q times that are usually somehow longer than the Role Q Tank Q times even though they should be much shorter even if the modes were equally populated
-
there also needs to be an explanation for the - compared to Role Q - rather easily achievable T500 in Open Q - which is rather hard especially since many people are reporting that their Open Queue SR is heavily inflated
You need to come up with a whole bunch of probably rather “interesting” explanations to somehow make this seem to work, while there is a very simple one that solves them all:
The majority of people outside of the Korean region prefer Role Q, so that is the mode they mostly play 
If you really believe that all those things are - against all odds - aligning by pure accident, then there is probably no point in taking this any further.
Let me end this whole thing with a quote from Jeff in Competitive Open Queue Developer Update:
It’s actually been fascinating to watch the response to Competitive Open Queue.
Across the world, and as you know, Overwatch is a very global game,
people play Competitive Open Queue in very different ways.
So, for example, in Korea,
Competitive Open Queue in the Arcade
is the second most popular mode being played right now,
while in North America,
Competitive Open Queue is less popular than Mystery Heroes,
or even Workshop modes being played in the game browser.
1 Like
again, the usage data that was taken for one single day when role-less queue had just been reintroduced to the game the day before or so and buried one menu layer deeper than 222 mode is valid for purposes of answering the question of what usage was like that specific day, but it isnt valid for many reasons already stated to support the contention that 222 is more popular than open queue
further, my insistence has nothing whatsoever to do with this item - invalid is invalid, regardless of my stance or how vocal I (or anyone) is about it
we’ve already covered this ground multiple times, and as such, I won’t be discussing it further in this side conversation
usage data is numerical - mode x was used y times today - and can be collected by automated counting systems
popularity/preference data is non numerical - which do you prefer, mode x or mode y? - and cannot be collected in an automated fashion at all
the two types of data are entirely dissimilar
[quote=“Knighthood-21706, post:89, topic:623033, full:true”]
not at all
I have no interest in attempting to explain anything about invalid datasets nor the relationship between them
Further, I am not making the claim that the two datasets are related and/or connected in some way. The burden of proof of a claim lies on whoever makes that claim
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Official usage data does not match the official poll.
In Korea open queue was played less than role queue according to the usage data.
Yet in the official poll open queue was significantly more popular than role queue.
How do you explain this?
This is what flat earthers sound like isn’t it…
4 Likes
If you have 100 people and 50 of them prefer Role Q while 50 of them prefer Open Q with each player playing roughly 1 hour per day, then you end up with about 50% usage data and 50% popularity data for each mode.
For those values to significantly vary from each other (and therefore for your argument to be applicable in this case) the player base of one of the modes would necessarily have to play a lot more than the other one - which you can neither explain nor prove.
Every time you come up with a new excuse why the data is totally invalid you are adding another point to the list of things that you:
All you are interested in is arguing on technicalities - either because your are trolling, or because that is the only way for you to not having to accept reality.
If it is #1, then “chapeau!”, you got me.
If it is #2 then that’s perfectly fine by me - I am not going to try to convince you any further.
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The poll was conducted impromptu during an OWL match stream. It did not question whether players preferred Open Queue or Role Lock specifically, but rather juxtaposed the two with the recently announced 5v5 game structure being imposed on us in OW2. In Korea, just like in the West, folks like to hark back to the good old times when they think they were happier. The playerbase has become somewhat jaded with the perceived stagnation of the game and, furthermore, like us, is tired of being treated like mushrooms by Blizzard in regards to the future of the game they’ve come to love. I view their response as more of a collective “screw you” to Blizzard than anything else.
The game becomes unplayable without it unfortunately. It was so tiring being on the 4-5 dps team against 2-2-2 on the other team. You lose the match before it even starts.
It didn’t even have to be a good comp, just babysitting 3-4 DPS who keeps trying to get the others to swap to tank or support was absolutely tragic to watch. Especially when none of them probably should be on DPS to begin with.
I mean, if you want games to be predominantly 4dps, sure.
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No, it is for the good of the game. Be patient and work on your mechanics while waiting in deathmatch.
They didnt implement the system because everyone played 222 already that makes no sense. If all your matches are 222 then you are an anomaly, for most people it isnt that way.
never said they did…
im just questioning the need for it if when you go in there the games are mostly 222 anyway…thats not just me saying it…i log games on here regularly…and its not just my team because im flexible either…my opponents also typically play 222 the vast majority of the time
like i would love for someone else to actually log games on here…in particular someone who claims its always nothing but dps…but i know its never going to happen…A) cause nobody is crazy like me…and B) cause i doubt it would actually show what they claim
but to reiterate…i dont think it needs go…just think the claims are incredibly overexaggerated
2 Likes
Imagine being a headmod tho
I play every day and I have literally never seen this happen. Not even once.