Role Queue-Let's Stop Arguing

General Discussion
20

The chance of winning due to forced 2 / 2 / 2 would make certain DPS heroes pointless thanks to Blizzard Hero Design.

So toxicity on picking certain heroes would rise through the roof exponentially.
After all you want DPS heroes that can do consistent damage, especially vs 2 tanks and 2 healers.

So likely Tracer pickrate will be much higher to deal with the supports.
The second high pickrate maybe Bastion to counter Rein \ Orissa or Rein \ Zaraya

Symmetera pickrate will drop so much she might be the first hero to reach 0.001% pickrate

If there were a Darwin Award for Bad Ideas, this would definitely win it.

21

Everyone loses when the player base is fragmented. It’d be like if we split the NFL into two leagues. Both leagues would be worse in overall quality because neither of them would have any of the same players and neither of them would have all of the best players.

Matchmaking would be less meaningful and would take longer for BOTH groups due to there being less players in each. Even matches would be less likely to occur since there’d be a small player pool to draw from. The way people already complain about matchmaking, I can guarantee that wouldn’t go over well. There’d be many more one-sided matches. You wouldn’t be able to play with friends who were in the other competitive mode until you were ranked there, too, and your ranks would probably be different between the two modes. LFG features would be less useful if you had to make sure everyone wanted to be in the SAME competitive mode.

This is all in addition to the fact that the forced 2/2/2 mode would be about 95% DPS mains that come there expecting to finally have a mode where people will heal and tank for them, which would lead to WAY longer queues than 20 minutes. DPS queues in WoW, even at the height of it’s player count, were known to be between 30 and 45 minutes just to do a single dungeon and that’s with 3/5 of every team in that game being DPS. Imagine waiting in a 30-minute queue for a comp match and then losing. Can you imagine the salt?

There are only downsides to 2/2/2 and/or player base fragmentation, regardless of the reason for it.

22

It is like this either way. Some people think these hero’s are pointless and others pick them regardless. Nothing would change in this regard.

If this is a concern why wouldn’t said person just choose non-role queue comp and continue on like normal. (I am hoping for 2 options “role queue” and " regular queue" so that 1 group isn’t forced to play how other want as much.)

It is already like this either way… People pick sub optimal hero’s given the situation and get flamed for it. A choice of role queue or reg queue won’t change peoples bias for certain hero’s. It would just stop a tank or healer from picking torb out of spite for having a sym.

Question? When the overwhelming majority of games (below masters) already have 2 healers currently, how would there still being 2 healers change anything?

I am pretty sure if after 3 years of flaming Sym’s cause of their hero choice a role queue wouldn’t keep them from picking said hero… Otherwise they would have already…

It’s not like someone would suddenly be like “Oh hey I am in role queue so I won’t just pick sym anymore?!?”

People already get horrible treatment for picking Sym and they rarely switch regardless, I don’t see how this would change at all.

Just stop with the adding trendy buzz phrases, it doesn’t change anyones opinion on the subject and just seems desperate to add credibility to a subject.

23

but that’s not how competitive games work.
Games have one rule set that is -The Rules- and then everything is a spin off from there. It’s why we don’t have unlimited comp and one hero limit comp. We only have 1HL comp/QP and unlimited has correctly been thrown into arcade. If the game went to a forced 2-2-2 to help with game balance I would expect the same thing to happen. The current “unlimited team comp” mode would be sent off to pasture as part of the arcade zone rotation.

There is a very real possibility that the balance team just flat out can’t balance a 29, 30, 35+ (in the future) sort of hero game around letting people play 4 tanks, 3DPS, 4 support or whatever else is the future 3-3 like meta.
If they had locked in 2-2-2 from the start no one would think anything of it now. The same way no one seem to have a problem with 1HL now, as the past stall moves of running out of spawn with a few D.va and Mei was just terrible game play.

They could do WAY more interesting balance passes and reworks if the balance team knew for sure that there would only be 2 tanks, only be two DPS etc. It opens the door for more hybrid like heroes, letting a team have 2.5 sort of comps etc.

that said, I think we see a hero protect/ban system before the game goes draconian 2-2-2. That said, I’m also not sure how many more terrible hero release/balance like issues, as we have seen with Brigitte, the player base is willing to endure with this current system.

1 Like
24

Actually it changes everything.
If you are not doing enough DPS against the enemy you could switch a tank to DPS or a Support to DPS. A forced 2 / 2 / 2 is obiviously not possible. Meaning only heroes that can counter 2 tanks and out burst 2 healers would ever get picked.

Probably be roughly 500% worse by conserative estimate.
Imagine if both DPS players decide to go Sniper?

Now 2 tanks can’t switch, 2 healers can’t switch.
Currently a tank or healer could switch to another class to compensate - which can’t happen in a 2 / 2 / 2

Again common sense.

Also do you know what people will demand after 2 / 2 /2 fails terribly?
"Make sure only 1 DPS can only be 1 flanker or 1 sniper.

Then you know what will happen when that fails?
Make sure every Tank has at least 1 shield tank.

Do you know whats going to happen when that fails?
Make sure 1 healer is a main healer.

The obivious consequences of their choices is plain as day. Yet because of how unaware they are they can’t see it.

While 2 healers maybe in the majority the 2 healers can currently flex on demand if the situation arrises to another Tank or DPS if they are under performing.

That is what Overwatch is about. Switching Heros to compensate for the weakness of the build. Once 2 / 2 /2 there is no more room for real compensation.

This of course would not be the case if Blizzard believed in Hybrid classes. But we know they don’t because they nerfed D.Va damage and Brigettes Damage.

Currently sym has a chance to win with a 3 DPS setup.
Because she complements DPS players really well. With a 2 / 2 / 2 setup her kit is so terrible it is aboslutetly useless as an individual DPS hero.

She does not provide enough DPS to the table to counter tanks, nor do her turrets cool down useful enough to counter flankers.

Meaning her win rate would soon become the first hero to reach <10%.
Which in a way would be good so Developers can actually buff her so she can be independently useful.

You are right 2/2/2 supporters are deperate to add credibility.
Because they literally have none.

25

Would you really need changes to the PTR/Arcade to test it?

It seems to be one could make a Discord for 2-2-2 and create groups for each SR range and role and then create custom matches.

Yes, it’d take some time to set up and it’d be inconvenient but, if the demand is present it could be done.

If you just care about your team having 2-2-2 you could just use the existing LFG.

26

EU, Canada and the USA already have separate leagues for football. Hockey already does divisions in NA and it all works out. Nothing stops them from getting traded or signing with other teams.

But I do get your point haha.

Admittedly yes times would be longer, but I for 1 would rather longer times and (in my opinion) better quality of matches.

And I don’t see why there would be 2 different ranks, people can already queue with unranked people anyways making this a non issue.

LFG is already near worthless since you group up for 2 matches and never talk again after 1 loss…

This again is admittedly the side effect of longer queue times for DPS, but that is what happens when you enter a market saturated by others of the same role.

I played WoW religiously from BC-start of Cata, and was there when group finder became a thing, my BE Warlock queue times were 5-15 mins and that was at the peak of WoW’s life, the way to get around it? queue with a tank or healer and your times were instant-30secs.

In your opinion, just like my opinion is different. There isn’t just 1 view point and your view of only downsides doesn’t make it the only fact of the matter, it is just not what you want, just like current comp is just not what I want and the only solution I have seen is to let people choose how they want to play.

Selecting reg queue wouldn’t be much more of a wait since it would still be 12 random people getting put in a match and doing whatever and at the same time people like me could enjoy a bit more structure.

Not having it means I am forced to play how someone of your opinion wants and my way lets both of us play the way they want, since we can both choose the mode we like and reg queue times wouldn’t be effected much.

27

So then pick reg comp queue and keep on as normal?

While we pick role queue and play how we like?

Instead of either side trying to dictate to the other how they play the game?

Bloody communists ruin everything…

28

For me qp is main game mode, not practice range for competive.

29

No idea what you just said.
But if you want 2 / 2 / 2 use LFG to find other players that want certain heroes.
Really simple as that.

After all “playing” how you like is not 2 / 2 / 2 when you force others to follow the 2 / 2 / 2 format. LoL.

The irony of not being able to see that.
Dying with laughter here.

30

Except the others who don’t want 2/2/2, could just pick regular comp queue and play like they always have…

31

LFG already exists.
It is known as redundancy when you add multiple systems that do the exact same thing.

More specifically LFG is not limited to 2 / 2 / 2 which makes it more versatile. You can make any group of any type.

Which means not only does LFG do the exact same thing, it is also far more robust.

32

Good for it, I personally don’t use it because 6 stacking (unless you have a team to play with consistently) is a suicide mission, whereas single or duo queue is enjoyable sometimes and making a LFG for a duo or even maybe 3 stack doesn’t solve the problems many of us have with the game… Otherwise we would have months ago… Hence why we are looking for an alternative that won’t effect people who don’t want to use the feature.

34

That is not an argument in any manner or form.
You found 5 other people who also want to do the same thing as you.

You notice how you avoided specific details?
The reason people do that is because they have no real argument and simply want to say something.

Almost no different than someone screaming, “Reasons” as a response to an answer.

Let me give you the reasons you are scared of hearing.

If you do a 6 stack you are worried the other 6 stack will be better than you.

More importantly, you are scared your hopes and dreams that the enemy team who ran 6 dps ends up beating your perfect 2 / 2 / 2 making the whole idea of 2 / 2 / 2 utterly worthless.

Finally you really are not interested in finding 5 other people through a social channel. You want 5 random people you don’t know that fits your ideollogy and hope its a good idea.

Sorry but everything you think about 2 / 2 / 2 is made of rice paper and every reason against is a smoldering hot fire.

35

The big difference is LFG is just a glorified solo queue with random people. LFG is more like role queue than clans, which is why role queue won’t work. With clans, you’ll get to know people inside the group, and form way better teams than any LFG or forced 222 will do.

Not to mention you’ll have a good time win or lose because you are playing with people you’ve come to know.

36

What? a bunch of rando’s from LFG facing a practiced 6 stack isn’t a reason? Especially when you can win 10 games in a row, but as soon as you lose 1, everyone leaves?

By your logic they need to stop keeping large stacks together and let only solo que’s play against them.

Literally scroll up and read them… re-explaining them over and over to someone who isn’t smart enough to remember them gets tiresome…

But again… Some of us want to play with more structure instead the random BS we have been playing for years now… Yes, yes, LFG… Read the comment I made before this for that reason…

Look I get it, you just can’t grasp the fact not everyone wants to play the game like you, so you have to cherry pick incomplete statements and leave out the context around it to have a point, while assuming you know peoples reasons better than they do. (you did the same thing in our last talk and stopped replying after i said to just read our convo from the start to current to see).

I don’t know why you are so against a function that wouldn’t effect you, but would enrich other peoples time, but okay I guess.

That is okay.

Some of us work (school is a cake walk compared to work), or have other obligations that vary in time, making co-ordinating play time difficult. But would like to get a reasonable experience in their down time.

37

Uhh, how would you enforce unlocked roles to role queue then? DPS players could just queue tank for faster queues and then pick DPS. That’s easily abusable.

38

The idea is you’d have two Compositions, and four queues. And you can join 1-4 queues simultaneously.

  • Flex-Flex-Flex-Flex-Flex-Flex
    • Unlocked Queue
  • Flex-Flex-Tank-Tank-Heal-Heal
    • Damage Queue (unlocked)
    • Tank Queue (locked)
    • Healer Queue (locked)

Additionally, 4 players could vote to unlock roles, and Mei would be moved to the Tank class.

For composition options you’d have:

  • 2-2-2
  • Tripletank
  • Quadtank
  • GOATs
  • Lots of healers comp
  • 2-2-2, but Mei as offtank
39

The reason 2/2/2 will be enforced isn’t due to people wanting restrictions it’s because as the roster expands more and more abusable interactions between tanks and supports arise. The devs will introduce roll queue because if they don’t they won’t be able to release more hero’s without breaking the game.

Tanks work too well with support which is proven by the dominance of goats. As we get more tanks and supports that work better together than DPS ever will the largest class will be invalidated.

Dps players are their own worse enemies fighting against 2/2/2 enforcement. The only thing that saves them is the fact that almost all one tricks pick a suboptimal dps so you’ll still find games with 3 dps. The good news is they statistically lose more than a balanced comp so the more 3 dps games they force the more they drop in SR so the less flexible players have to deal with them.

I know OWatch isn’t legue of legends but they’re similar enough to have the same problems. LOL introduced a role queue because without it people become exponesially more toxic to one another. Role queue won’t eliminate toxicity but it will improve it.

Your argument that some dps characters will never be picked is irrelevant as some characters are rarely picked now. Sym doesn’t function better with 3 dps she functions better in a balanced comp like just about every character. The only characters that work better now are characters like brig who functions better in a dps slot because she can’t put out enough raw healing to keep her team up.

40

Man, I should be playing Blizzard Forum Bingo with this. There’s slippery slope, “just use LFG”, not being able to role switch will ruin the game, “it’s obvious”, and the list goes on and on and on and on…
Seriously, the same arguments over and over and very few want to talk calmly about it. Truth is, yes, role swapping is a part of the game NOW and needing more dps to make up for your shortcomings in a role you selected is currently possible. This isn’t a mark of your skill in the game though since everyone plays each of the roles at different levels which ruins the comp experience for many.
If you do get two snipers in 2-2-2 that refuse to swap, they’ll derank fast unless they’re playing out of their mind and therefore the point is moot. Sure it’ll suck for the team but the selfish dps will be weeded out. I’m not picking on dps only, there’s people like that in every rank and role.
LFG doesn’t offer the same qualities as a 2-2-2 role queue so please stop using it as a cookie cutter response to it. You can enforce 2-2-2 for your team but not the other which leaves your team SEVERELY disadvantaged since the opposing team doesn’t have the same restrictions. Before you say, “The team that has enforced 2-2-2 is disadvantaged, hmm, that means that 2-2-2 is inferior.” No, that’s not what it means. The current unregulated structure is incredibly unbalanced and unpredictable. Sometimes people don’t even know why they won, they chose a hero they THOUGHT would work and kept throwing things at the other team until something stuck, but they don’t know why it worked since there’s so many factors involved.
I’ll be plain. Role queue isn’t some magical solution to the problems present but it does offer some structure to a competitive mode. But here’s a thought, why does it have to be one way or the other. I swear it’s like people didn’t read OP and saw 2-2-2 and foamed at the mouth. We, the people that want this structure, want it in the game. That doesn’t necessarily mean replace comp but just add it. It may be great, it may be a dumpster fire. But it’s high time that something was added to the game that we could play instead of something to equip on our heroes.
So all I hear from the people against role queue in any shape or form is that they don’t want more content and are satisfied with what is in the game right now.
A little ranty but by god i’m getting tired of the same tired arguments and close minded people who think they know better because they have an opinion. Yes, I have an opinion, it may be wrong but I can acknowledge my shortcomings, can you?