That’s fine by me. Buff tanks sky high so they’re all 1 man wrecking crews if they want, so long as they leave a few who’s playstyles and kits promote teamwork(promote, not rely on) I’ll continue to que into the role.
I said, “even Wrecking Ball depending on the map geometry and if the enemy has stuns”. I know Wrecking Ball is very good at stalling, but he isn’t good at doing it on every single map.
Whether or not you can stall the objective does not make you a tank. Stalling the objective does not matter if your whole team is dead.
Well, incidentally, I haven’t gone ahead and blended it with “BlizCon” style changes yet.
But I did just make a recent post that I think puts Tanks on the right track.
Balancing to solve "Rein or Lose"
The problem with BlizCon style changes is that it would require a whole extra layer of systems to make sure it works.
(I.e. “How to you stop snipers from completely dominating, without nerfing snipers into the ground”)
Blizzard removed Symmetra 1.0 from support because she could not heal. Every support in the game right now can heal, but 6/8 tanks can block damage for their teammates.
You need to stop thinking, that every single tank is suppose to be like Reinhardt. Overwatch is a very diverse game in terms of playstyles, though in high level it usually always gravitates towards some kind of a meta.
How do you think people beat Goats with single tank Wrecking Ball? Wrecking Ball didn’t just tank damage in the frontlines and shoot shields. Ball annoyed everyone, booping and slowed so much that dps could chip away big tanks hp, or get a crucial pick on a support etc. He stalled objectives as he is so fast and tanky.
Speed, eating cooldowns and booping people around is tanking
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Well lets take orisa, she should be a good tank because she has shield right? Well atm she is an awful pick.
And no, not all tanks needs to block dmg for their teammates. Hammond dives the enemy, reposition them, takes their focus away, maybe kills some1. Meanwhile your other teammates use this distraction made by their tank and clean up rest of the enemy team. That is also tanking and a great example of space taking.
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If the character is balanced in such a way that they are weak, then it doesn’t matter what their kit is, they are a bad pick.
At least to some extent they should. Like Zarya is more damage-focused but she can still project a barrier out onto a teammate. Being able to prevent CC & cleanse stuff like Ana’s anti-nade is also huge to let your team survive.
I could say the same thing about any mobile DPS hero. Doomfist can go in, distract the enemies, maybe gets a kill or two while his distraction allows for his team to clean up the rest of the enemies.
Sure other heroes can take or deny space aswell. Widowmaker is also a good example of this. She can make certain areas a “no go zones”.
And yes i understand what you mean, it sucks to play in lower ranks if your other tank is roadhog and your other tank is hamster that just gets in alone all the time and dies alone.
Its a team game, different tanks needs different strats to play. Safest bet IMO still is to run with rein and zarya in my rank atleast, mostly because in my ranks team lacks cordination to work together, hog misses 60% of his hooks, players won’t group up and what not.
Um, Ball spinning objective is some of the most effective objective holding in OW. Hog’s Breather and his ability to force you away from him/towards him makes him effective at holding an objective. I somewhat worry that you cannot see the key difference in how a Tank plays versus how a DPS plays.
“Protecting” is not the goal of the tank, at least not directly. If you push the enemy hard enough that relieves pressure from your team because they have to stop you. That is quite literally a description of the current meta.
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No it isn’t. Genji and tracer can’t actually take aggro. They draw it, but they then pretty much immediately die. Ball has the ability to actually keep aggro.
You really can’t. Horrible comparison.
So zarya is a tank but hog isn’t, when the only difference zarya has is a bubble on 8 seconds that blocks damage for like a second? This just proves you do not know the definition of a tank. Zarya tanks through threat of her close range damage and extra durability, which is exactly what hog does. In fact, he even has something equivalent to bubble, being his hook allowing him to displace and peel.
I am so sick and tired of people thinking that because a tank doesn’t block damage they arent a tank. Its people like you that he enforced the “we need a shield” archetype into this game.
A tank is a character who draws and maintains aggro through damage mitigation and their larger health pools, and provide threat to enemies that get to close.
The only dps’ I would consider tanks are mei and bastion. Mei provides threat via close range and bastion draws aggro pretty well. Again, just because tracer has a lot of mobility does not mean she is a tank, because the second she draws aggro from the enemy team she has to back off. The main thing that differentiates a tank vs a dps is that a tank can actually stay in the fight actively and continue to do their job; dps, if they have aggro for too long usually have to back off or retreat entirely.
Tanks are not determined by blocking damage.
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Contesting the objective is meaningless if your whole team is dead.
DPS are the ones who push to provide pressure on the enemies, that is their primary job. Tanks & supports can do it to some degree too, but what separates a real tank or support from a DPS is that they can prevent damage done to their allies.
Blizzard reworked Symmetra and took her out of the support role because she can’t heal. So if healing is the thing that defines a support hero, and damage is the thing that defines a damage hero, then there should be 1 thing that defines a tank hero, which for 6/8 of the tanks is blocking damage for their allies.
Ball doesn’t stand, he rolls, and according to some thats almost impossible to beat without perfect coordination.
On 2CP point B, if you can do it long enough, your team can respawn, and retake the point.
On KotH, if you can stall it out you can get extra seconds on the clock for your team. Getting it to 99% immediately puts it into overtime when you recapture.
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I guess it’s a good thing that the tank role is going away and being replaced. They will be brawlers which is more fitting for Hog and WB.
/end thread
If the enemy has hit-scans or any stun, you aren’t surviving that long as Wrecking Ball.
It’s not guaranteed that they are going to do it, they are just experimenting doing it and seeing how it turns out. Testing new things is something devs are always doing. Now lets just hope they make the right decision and don’t make all of the tanks fat DPS heroes just like they tried 1-3-2 in experimental and didn’t implement it into the live game.
Good thing he’s able to get over 1000hp with his default 600hp and his ability.
You could say the same thing about Roadhog, that with his 600 HP + 300 self-heal and 50% damage resistance while healing, that he would be able to stall super long, but nope, he gets melted. Stuns counter both Roadhog & Wrecking Ball so hard. Hit-scans are good against Hog because he is very big and vulnerable all of the time and against Wrecking Ball, hit-scans can still land shots on him while he is spinning around. Wrecking Ball can’t spin around good on every point either.
Ball can, and should, do that just fine while the team is alive. What Ball fundamentally does is tanking in its purest form. Ball can make one of two options: he can displace positioning in the main fight thus focusing fire onto him and allowing your team a position advantage or he can go on a back target thus either killing it or forcing multiple back to support thus giving your team a position advantage.
Both the point style of Ball and the dive style of Ball are both viable ways to play Ball and each has its own place depending on the situation. However, it is a uniquely tank role. Tracer cannot be diving into the main fight and ruining the positioning of the current team. She can succeed at the former but fails at the ladder because she lacks the HP to pull it off (and even at diving she generally is only following up on tank displacement as she is not a tool to engage with).
DPS are not the one who push to provide on enemies. That is purely a tank job. If Tracer is the initiator Tracer is dead. The same is true of every DPS.
Finally saying the mark of DPS is to “do damage” when about 4-5 tanks can consistently surpass DPS damage does not hold up to scrutiny.
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They are tanks because they have a large threat and have CC to give their team space
Ball: controls high ground and attracts major attention
Hog: if he has hook you just can’t duel him on off angles
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Just because Hog and WB are often played like dps by dps players who are queue dodging, doesn’t make them not tanks. The real tank mains who play these heroes like tanks and not miles from their team have a very noticeable ability to control space, making them tanks. And players who know how to work with their style of tanking is also rare, but when they do they are quite effective at tanking. And can be a massive pain to deal with.
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