Revert Infinite teleporter/stealth campaign

General Discussion
1

It’s that time of the year where blizzcon and Overwatch 2 news are around the corner

But in the mean time let’s suggest a forbidden word, not found on the blizzard dictionary, let alone the papa Jeff dictionary

Revert

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You can look it up there’s nothing, anyway let’s buff sombra and symmetra by doing these good and healthy changes, reverts of a change noone asked for, wasn’t needed, and was overall unhealthy

FAQ
  • How is limited better than infinite?

It’s not about the duration, rather the consequences of having an unrealistic duration, have to be balanced and kept down significantly for a potential that it’s not quite real let alone useful

  • Why a full revert when it sucked?

Most of the playerbase (not necessarily from the hero) prefers it like that because of the dynamic gameplay, it also didn’t suck, it just had a higher skill floor and ceiling

  • Why a full revert?

It doesn’t necessarily have to be a full revert, rather bring back the limited version with the most impactful thing it did when it was limited

~~Proof that infinite is worse, and limited is better~~ ignore this no longer relevant

~~Best prove we can provide is dva’s matrix, at the very begging lifespan of the game, dva had an infinite matrix in a 10s cooldown, she sucked
Sure there are more factors of why she sucked, such as bomb damaging her or shooting slowing her down significantly, but one thing that is true is that having it changed to a resource meter made her

SO MUCH BETTER
Here’s proof that infinite is bad, you can’t be effective with matrix only dva, but you may want matrix at a very specific moment and you no longer have it, this fluidity is why resource meter is better, and why OG stealth and Teleporter were better~~ turns out it was never infinite and I got bamboozled by me, thanks to comments I was able to fix this mess

Sombra

Starting with my girl sombra here are the proposed changes

Stealth with contesting points
  • Stealth
    Duration is now 5s (reverted)
    Speedboost Increased from +50% to +75%
    Can contest objectives while cloaked
Stealth with longer time but no contest objectives

This is the semi revert that removes the most annoying cheese thing and instead highlights what made it Powerful and increases on it

  • Stealth
    Duration is now 10s
    Speedboost Increased from +50% to +75%
    Cast time to enter stealth reduced from .8s to .65s
Sombra FAQ
  • Why is being forced out of stealth better?

You aren’t forced out of stealth, they are telling you when you’ll run out

Or do you get forced out of dva boosters? Does rein charge get forced out? No!
There’s clear information of when you’re getting out of stealth

  • What are the advantages of this?
    Routing

Some people want to underrate it and not appreciate it, but the parkour let you to nearly every position of the map
It’s niche? Maybe, but it’s a possibility, and a good one, if you want it to compare it to something similar, imagine that pharah no longer boops herself with the blast, soldier can no longer rocket jump, junkrat can’t jump with the mines, see where I’m getting at?

Losing these massive advantages for these heroes would mean a lot to those who main them, which is why me and many others miss the glory days of stealth
Is not that current is bad and unplayable, it’s just that old one was better, at least for a not-afk-scout
playstyle

  • How is it healthier? Sombra will suffer

It’s healthier because mastering it leaves more reward, you can get creative with it, and you basically have the possibility of being more effective

It’s also healthier for the enemy because they don’t have to worry about you 24/7, and it doesn’t lead to the current cheese strats of today, farm EMP, stay in backline 15 years, EMP
Instead it brings a much more dynamic and harder to use sombra, sombra was one of the hardest heroes and I think it should remain that way, making the only part of relative “low skill” her hack, while normal players who don’t invest time in her won’t get as much value

  • I didn’t like finite stealth! Too short! Why would I want this?

This is where you’re covered, with the no contesting points but longer time you should be able to get a middle ground of the best of OG while not being under much pressure

  • I saw sombra players having to hide and then go back just like mass Rez mercy, therefore isn’t healthy, why would you want this?
    Although it is true that you’d sometimes need to hide, there are 2 things to consider
  1. Did anyone complain? I don’t think so
  2. You only hid for 6s until it was back on cooldown, and it was usually once per point, after you were set up you wouldn’t do that, also thanks to the longer duration this might not happen much at all
Symmetra Going with our favorite portal character, here's what the TP reverts look like
Teleporter

Duration reduced to 8s
Cooldown is still 10s (turns out it had more downtime)

  • Now I think sym could use much more, I don’t see why in 2021 a normal ability has 400hp (turns out it’s 300), IMO it should be reduced to 200 and lower the cast time to compensate
Symmetra FAQ
  • Why is it better?

It makes her more dynamic, and one major thing that was lost is that you can no longer use TP to save teammates, and symmetra has become taximetra, to either from spawn to point or from save point A to save point B, perhaps a highground, however this limits the team’s position to 1 spot and symmetra can’t flank often

  • Why would this be healthier?

It significantly improves symmetra’s capabilities by being creative and fluid, although she can still be an out of spawn taxi to immediately switch off, a good symmetra will be much better and show much more with her, her total potential raises because her ceiling raises

Apologies I want to sincerely apologize to tornado because shield generator isn't mentioned, however, it would be a much better ability than trash can turrets... Anyway

Most sym players if not the majority of the playerbase agrees that finite teleporter was better, however with Sombra is more splitted, between which one is easier and which one is less stressful, making it more/less fun

But none of them mention that sombra infinite is better, just easier
So after this if you still don’t believe old stealth was better but kinda understand why old tp was better, you can compare them both side by side and find the exact same functionality flaws in both of them

Hope you enjoyed reading an essay :wink:

Edits: Number fixes
Edit: Sym number fixes to match her old tp with a better state

3 Likes
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Um the Sym change is cool… but not Sym 2.0 :cry::cry::cry: also like sombra changes

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3

There’s a specific apology for that, dedicated to our favorite shield generator supporter

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4

Revert the sombra invis and trans change
Revert sym back 2.0

3 Likes
5

Ik but whatever devs don’t listen anyway so

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6

Very sad moment
If they would just do that :frowning:

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Yes exactly idk why they have the forums for feedback when they don’t use the feedback

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8

Source for this claim?

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YT sym mains, Reddit sym mains, forum sym mains, in game sym mains

10

I don’t see the problem with it being infinite, nor do I hear many people complain about it (but I do admit a significant number don’t like it). What I do hear are complaints about the speed of deployment… are we sure that isn’t the underlying issue?

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11

She most certainly did not have infinite matrix

12

Nono create a new game mode with old version of heroes. A complete revert would be far too controversial. But with an old Overwatch game mode, we can play with our favourite version of the hero without it pissing off 3.0 stannies

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13

here’s a better proof of why old finite 3.0 tp cd mechanic is better than the current cd mechanic:

which then shows why old finite tp was more frequent, was able to get more actual uptime (as opposed to a tp being up somewhere but not being close to the team e.g. most spawn tps), why old tp was more flexible, etc.

while I agree with the sentiment for sym, but your numbers ain’t it.

  • current tp hp is 300 and always has been tbh
    • this is to allow an enemy to counter tp without absolutely requiring another teammates to help focus fire it. i.e. average dps of heroes is about 150dps, there’s 2s total for tp deployment.
  • 4s duration is like trip in and 1 trip out with little time left to do something while in. the old 3.0 tp duration was 10s and that really quite sufficient in many uses.
  • idk if you meant 8s cd starting on placement or not, but regardless that’s like >=4s down time when old finite 3.0 tp achieved 2s. i.e. your proposed tp is simply worse.
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14

there’s 2.

deployment speed is 1 issue, and because of infinite tp there’s another issue. both have been complained about a lot.

a quick and visual proof of why old 3.0 finite tp cd mechanic being better is the below:

Most other abilities and sym’s old 3.0 finite tp:

timeline of cd:            |-------------------------------|
timeline of getting value: |+++++++++++| ability down time |

Sym’s current infinite tp:

timeline of cd:                        |-------------------------------|
timeline of getting value: |+++++++++++|       ability down time       |

so you can easily see that old finite tp comes back quicker and achieves less experienced down time which means:

  • more casts —> more uptime (note that sym’s effective range including orbs is low, and even with +25hp her sustain isn’t all that high either).
  • able to switch use cases and/or positioning quicker —> more adaptable and can play more aggro
    • this is especially considering post shield and tank nerfs which make them move around more —> teams move around more —> where tp should be and what it should be put down for changes more often.
15

That assumes it being knocked down… which it isn’t. Again, all I hear really is the issue surrounds deployment speed, not the fact its infinite. And c/d is an issue, but that again has nothing to do with being infinite.

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She most certainly had!

1st video I found idk, I think it’s from beta tho but still

Sry, imma fix that

It is on placement

I actually don’t remember the OG tp but I thought it was 10s cooldown 6s duration, so I might consider reworking that based on what the numbers were

17

Where does this video show infinite matrix?

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Whenever the player uses matrix
0:35 shows no duration, goes to a 10s cooldown instead, because it was infinite

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OK I see your confusion. You must have not actually played the game (or at least DVa) prior to matrix being reworked. It’s not infinite. Back then, you hit E and defense matrix went up on a fixed timer (2s during beta, and i think 3s at launch). After those 2-3 seconds it went down and then went on cooldown.

Ironically this example is actually complete counter evidence for your original post. Original DVa is actually limited matrix, and she sucked. Your example of new DVa being better is actually an example of saying Sombra was bad and going from old stealth to a resource meter would be an improvement.

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Damn
Dva sucked more than I thought

Thanks for the clarification tho, imma edit that out sad my proof gone

Tbf it probably would either way

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