Your SR is completely irrelevant.
Torb = easy to counter
if you’re being countered it would be more effective for you to play something you’re bad at possibly.
You’re ignoring that and it’s quite telling, honestly.
Keyword: “Intentionally”. They aren’t feeding on purpose.
You hit the problem exactly problem though, that supposed grey area. People do anything they can to spin things and make themselves seem like the victim. Throwing pros try to play victim because of one-tricks. All Torbs are convinced they’re never toxic. Most people are guilty but convinced they’re infallible, regardless of hero or rank.
The core issue is not people simply misinterpreting though. The real issue is the legitimately toxic people that know the rules full well, then intentionally pretend to misintepret them to do something they know they shouldn’t. A person can just say, ‘I don’t false report! I think it’s x!’ but they know it ain’t.
Ya know the type of people I mean – we all get them. False reporting streamers. Or throwers that swap to Torb then go, ‘oh I’m innocent I’m just playing torb’. But everyone knows exactly what these people are doing.
If the report system wasn’t a joke or we had a real Support team, this wouldn’t be a problem.
1 Like
You seem to think im ignorant to your points, which, in context have validity… Though you probably also believe Torbs turret is essential? I do a lot of my damage with the lava gun and the turret is a great distraction, I almost always take advantage of the level 1 turret in a 1v1 because while they’re killing the turret, I kill them and also pick up some scrap from the destroyed turret.
1 Like
Done. By your admission my points are valid in the given context.
The given context is that Torb is easy to counter and you, without a doubt, have had games were you were being countered.
Did you swap?
No?
You’re hurting your team and should swap or take your reports gracefully.
Also, I didn’t say you were ignorant to the points; I said you were ignoring them.
And you were.
Assuming what the other person thinks is a very, very bad strategy and I suggest you don’t do it in the future.
I don’t think that and never said that. I do, however, think it’s as essential as any ability can be for a character. Do you have to use it? Of course not. You also don’t have to use Biotic field with Soldier.
So is the turret essential or not? You seemed to imply that it wasn’t (and that I thought it was) yet, by your own admission, you say you almost always take advantage of the level 1 turret in a 1v1 and that you use the turret as a distraction.
Which is it? Is it essential or not?
Either way, and again, it’s completely irrelevant.
Torb is easy to counter. Do you deny this? Please let me know.
If he’s easy to counter then you’re hurting your team by not swapping if you’re getting countered.
End of story.
This convo is long. But I recommend making lfg group named “I’m a 60%wr torb”
No, he’s not.
Blizzard also say he’s not.
2 Likes
The only one being selfish and self-centered is you for thinking you can tell someone else who they should play.
Blizzard have said that hero choice is not a reportable offense, so your opinion is moot.
2 Likes
Really? I’m being selfish by thinking about 5 other people who joined a competitive game with the intention of working together? Yet the guy who joins the competitive game and refuses to work with others isn’t selfish?
You need to get your definitions straight.
Also, I’m not telling him what he should play, but nice straw-man. I’ve come to expect terrible, fallacious arguments from people on these forums.
Refusing to cooperate with teammates is game-play sabotage. Refusing to swap heroes when you’re being countered is refusing to cooperate with teammates by definition.
It’s not the hero choice that’s getting him reported and banned. It would be the refusal to cooperate with the team.
Also, you can dig for this if you want, but I saw a thread awhile back that had a Torb main who refused to swap despite being countered and was banned as a result. He disputed the ban but blizzard came back and said that he was refusing to cooperate so they couldn’t do anything about it.
So, not only is my opinion not moot, but my point isn’t moot either.
That was a decent attempt at a “mic drop” though. 3/10
Honestly this is how it goes Composedjam,
I start the game, I choose Torb… this morning I had “Hell yes, ez win, Torb carry me for a third win” (Which I did) but generally they start telling me to change because its attack and Torb CANT work on attack…
IF they choose a hero that counters TORB, it doesn’t mean I am ACTUALLY being countered because there’s a lot of games where I still dominate against a phara etc… also when they put so much effort into countering, that’s essentially them diverting team resources to predicting where I will be…
This morning I had an absolute gun Junkrat that just completely outskilled me and I changed as soon as I realised I couldn’t work around his skill… I DO change hero’s if its needed but what I DONT do is change just because someone says I am throwing or being countered when I know im not…
I am very aware of if I am playing terribly or being countered and there’s maps that I wont choose Torb for various stages…
This post isn’t about going Torb and never changing… its the inability for myself to genuinely play Torb to win and being accused of throwing etc when I have out performed the other DPS …
Its really quite evident because a couple of times, I have had team mates who accused me of throwing, reported me and then the next game they’re the enemy and they tell me “Holy … you’re torb is actually insane”…
3 Likes
Then, unless the ban was unfair, your teammates seem to think you don’t swap enough. It’s pretty clear this is why you’re getting reported and banned.
Look, I don’t necessarily agree with what’s happening to you. I OTP’d Mercy for many, many seasons and it wasn’t a problem because she was always needed or at least viable.
Torb doesn’t have that luxury, unfortunately. Just be mindful of how notorious your character is and how easy it is for people to scapegoat a loss to you.
Also, consider that you may be getting countered when you don’t think you are. That seems to be the main issue.
Yeah,
In my head though, if I were being countered so badly, how do we win so many games? Like it’s pretty hard to win 5v6 and Id ASSUME I am not getting matched up with players every match who are able to carry.
Anyone here should just play a game with me and see how I play and give me an objective opinion if it’s reasonable
The worst thing is that they’re re working Torb and I don’t know if it is going to kill my love for him, if it does, I guess my dramas are sorted haha…
Honestly I don’t think he needs reworking…
There needs to be a cultural change regarding the perception of Torb… I may get higher up in the SR and realize that he is easily countered by higher skilled players like the Junkrat I mentioned earlier but at my current SR of 2650, I just don’t see that level of counter skill by individuals or on that note, any actual team work due to everyone not knowing each other.
I have been talking to my mates about these issues so I am taking my computers to a friends tonight so that we can team up on computers (as they play console)… At least then, they can actually give me an objective opinion of whether or not I am failing to contribute to the team effort
2 Likes
Who said anything about refusing to work with others?
Again, whoever said they were refusing to cooperate?
And who is it that decides when someone is being countered?
If he’s playing Torb and is out DPS-ing the other DPS on the team, then that doesn’t say to me he’s being countered.
Except he’s not refusing to cooperate. It’s the rest of the team that are refusing to accept his hero choice when they falsely report him.
2 Likes
These two things have nothing to do with each other. And you can still out DPS the other DPS even when being countered. But out DPS-ing the other doesn’t mean you’re doing a good job.
So the one person that sticks on an extremely niche hero is not refusing to cooperate, but the other 5 that actually want to work together to build a team comp are? Your logic is flawed dude.
Those 5 people that build a teamcomp and communicate are the ones that are working together, not the “Insert hero” one trick that refuses to swap or play a hero that has higher value for a certain team comp.
People seem to think that one-tricks are being reported for their hero pick, but that’s not the case. They get reported because they are not working with the team, they refuse to listen to any form of team feedback or hero suggestions and 99% of the time they are extremely toxic about it.
Keep in mind that there are ofcourse exceptions, like as far as I can see so far like OP.
“Refusing to cooperate” with the team has never been a reportable offense, even back when “Poor Teamwork” was a report category. Enough people ignored the actual description for reporting and misused the report category that it had to be removed.
“Gameplay sabotage” isn’t “Poor teamwork v2.0”. If you support or do report people for sabotage because they aren’t “cooperating with their team,” then you support and/or are abusing the report system. There is nothing in there that says anyone has to change heroes when the “team” says so. And Blizzard/Jeff’s public statements has specifically said that no one has to change because the “team” says so.
None of this will physically stop someone from submitting false reports, but it’s still a false report and there is nothing ambiguous or arguable about it.
1 Like
(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)
edit: Post was deleted by accident
That’s because Blizzard has to be Politically Correct in everything they do, or there will be consequences. Of course they won’t state the obvious that Torbjorn is not effective on most Attack situations, if not nearly all of them, unless the enemy team is disorganized and perhaps blind.
Blizzard would rather have people remain in Elysium playing the only character they want to play, because they don’t care about your SR. Most people in competitive do care about their SR, and in order to increase it, playing Attack Torb is not the way to do it. Any other character is better in that situation.
A Gold player will happily play Torb on Attack, because they’re doing “what they want”. They never climb. In Blizzard’s eye, they are following the “Customer is always right” stance. They won’t tell you how you should play the game. Even if it’s to the detriment of fellow players.
People that consistently play Torbjorn on Attack are deleterious to the progression of their peers. We get them in Master’s now and then, and they are most certainly throwers. They do nothing the entire round. They never swap when it isn’t working. They waste 5-10 mins of 5 other people’s lives. It’s criminal.
Firstly, Jeff also said that players should be flexible and one trick can cause a detrimental experience. So yeah, they are saying you don’t have to change to suit your team but also saying you should.
But to stay on the topic of one-tricking and that hero picks are the reason they are reported, that’s not the case in 99% of the situations. The same as “Refusing to cooperate”, that’s not the only reason why they get reported. As I said before:
If a one trick is actually performing, nobody will report them. But, especially with niche picks, if you can’t perform you will stand out. The moment where you can’t perform and are only dying to the enemy, you are feeding and that’s a reportable offense.
“players intentionally allowing themselves to be eliminated by the enemy team (IE feeding).”
People need to get out of their heads that they are being reported for picking a hero and look further then that.
Couple of weeks ago I had a discussion with somebody who got a 6 month silence and he said that was because of his hero pick. In that topic he got two forum bans, one for a day and one for a week, before acknowleding he might need to change his attitude towards others and that might have something to do with it.
Yeah, this happened to me. The reports were not investigated, I was told by support I was “feeding and building turrets in spawn” because that’s what the 5-stack chose to write in the reports together at once.
It didn’t matter that everyone else was dying just as much as I was, or that some of the players didn’t realize the turret doesn’t give ult power. It also didn’t matter that the enemy team had completely pushed me and this five stack back to the spawn so, yeah, sometimes the turret gets built there… as well as right before the match starts in some cases.
It simply wasn’t verified, which was stupid because that season I reached my highest SR ever by maining Torb, and any group I teamed with had a higher chance of winning if I played him in most cases ( the other cases being when I absolutely needed to play Zarya).
Sometimes people can be quite greedy and get upset because they think a Torb pick means other picks have to be made. The truth is, what Torb needs is for at least 3 members of the team to group up and STAY ALIVE together while the turret is built. If the enemy is focusing on taking down the turret, that’s 5-15 seconds the rest of the team should be moving in together.
But some people just freak out because their team comp of Genji / Reaper / McCree isn’t working. Yeah, OK, like I can heal those people or shield flankers. Whatevs.
Now the meta changed this season, which actually did make Torb a trashier pick. That stinks. But still… no matter how people choose to be disignenuous about it, hero choice is not a reportable offense and is not griefing just on its own and also poor teamwork was so vague that it was removed from the report options.
Oh, and in conclusion, no one has ever been investigated or suspended for filing false reports.
3 Likes
XqC?
20 characters…
Jeff has said:
I do think it’s respectful to people to be willing to gel with the team composition, but you can’t ban somebody – it’s not a bannable offence – for just playing one hero, as long as you’re trying your best to win with that hero.
I think the game gets in a very dangerous state when we tell you who you’re allowed to play and not play with the game functioning like it does right now. The allure and the fantasy of Overwatch is there are these 26 heroes, and you can log in at any moment and be one of them. We should be trying to keep them all viable, and all decent picks within a team composition. I mean, sometimes you’re gonna be countered, but we can’t leave it at other players’ discretion to decide what you should be doing.
Should =/= Required. Switching has never been required, and refusing to switch is explicitly states as not gameplay sabotage under the report descriptions.
Feeding requires intent. If someone is trying but they’re still dying, that’s poor performance, which is also labeled not reportable under the descriptions. You cannot use “refusing to switch” as evidence for intent, because Blizzard has said multiple times not-switching is fine.
You, like plenty of other people who promote reporting one-tricks/off-meta players, continue to tie unrelated reportable offenses with one-tricking/off-meta players.
In your example, picking torb is not relevant at all except you decided to include it just so you justify reporting a “torb player.” You reported a verbally abusive player and feeding/intentionally throwing, not a torb player. Anyone can throw on any character, he just happened to click torb. When you remove torb from your example, because his choice of hero to throw on is irrelevant, it’s becomes a completely off-topic post, which is what it is.
Poor performance is not a reportable offense.
Leaving voice/ignoring your team’s “suggestions” is not and has never been a reportable offense. Your idea of “stubborn” is not doing what you say and switching character, which again, is not a reportable offense.
You’re either intentionally ignorant or immensely naive. I have play all day as a 20% WR one-trick Mercy, Rein, Winston, and 76, never switch, and ignore all team chat and never hear a peep about reports the entire time. At most, people call me a bad healer/tank/dps on defeat.
Meanwhile, almost every other game when I pick Widow/Torb/Sym people are typing in chat to report, regardless of how I am doing. This is something I’ve tested, and it follows complaints of many off-meta one-tricks that have posted about their experiences. The more famous and lucky off-meta players have to get white-listed because of all the false reporting. And many many many people on the forums have blatantly bragged about they falsely report one-trick/off-meta players for one-tricking/playing off-meta. That’s not even counting people like you who mixes reportable offense with hero choice just so you can say “I report off-meta too.”
3 Likes