Nah I know what I’m saying and I know what they’re saying. Maybe you can tell me what you think I’m saying. In no place in any of the examples I’ve witnessed or cited do they explicitly say “oh these people are getting placed higher than they should because they got grandfathered in from before role que,” although that would be the majority of players, and a base large enough to create a problem.
What your saying doesn’t even make sense. Grandfathered in? There is no grandfathered in. MMR has never been reset. If you started just after role que and have hundreds of hours on tank, and the game thinks your a GM, the game will put you around that level for multiple roles. Having an account before role que wouldn’t matter, as there has never been a MMR reset. Think about what you’re saying would denote and that its literally impossible.
Yes there is. This was confirmed by the devs as well. Back when they were introducing role queue, they split MMR from a single MMR to a per-role MMR. Before they announced role queue they said that they had tracked a per-role MMR for a few months; however, if the player only ever played a single role, then the MMR for those roles would never be adjusted. I’m unsure what you’re referring to with an MMR reset, since the concept of being “grandfathered in” is literally the opposite of that.
You explicitly mention players getting placed too high and needing to play on their alts for roles they dont normally play. Flats, xqc, and super are all primarily tank players. These are players whose mains have grandfathered MMRs from before role queue who typically play single roles, and so their role specific MMRs likely never stabilized below that.
Like come on dude. The devs have explicitly stated the roles each ahve a unique MMR and if they didn’t the system would be completely busted. You might want to “think about what you’re saying” yourself. Don’t believe all the random crap you hear from other users and random youtube channels like YO. They put out content based on what people want to hear to get views and generate discussion. They are not the devs of the game, you can’t cite them as a source for anything but anecdotal theorycrafting.
Where does it say separate MMR? BTW here is proof from the devs saying they weigh new players based on performance in one role
Also,
Are you implying that when a content creator has what is the equivalent of a press pass says “I talked to the developers about this” that this somehow is rampant sensationalism and just can’t be trusted? Just saying a source isn’t legitimate because it is a reporter and not the developers is kind of poor rhetoric.
You’re quoting exactly what I’m referring to. They explicitly state “We want to help identify your skill at each role, so we can place you at the SR that reflects that skill” and “the more games you’ll have to play on that role until your SR can adjust properly to reflect your skill” - This is literally describing that each role has a unique MMR/SR. Why would they say this if they’re all just related? That would make no sense.
Also I’m unclear what you’re talking about with respect to new players. The entire statement you quoted has literally nothing to do with new players. This was referring to how they decide to place players as role queue was introduced to accommodate the change to split roles.
The second paragraph is also describing the grandfathering I was referring to. That is, if you hadn’t played a sufficient amount of a particular role while they did these adjustments (pre-role queue) then those MMRs are going to be inaccurate, and this largely reflect your old MMR before role queue. A top500 player from before role queue who only ever played tank and now today decided to flex for passes is still going to have a DPS and Support MMR of ~top500 because it was never adjusted. So from that respect I’ll agree there is certainly potential for people to be placed wildly incorrectly for roles they didn’t play (i.e. my initial statement was not accurate). However, I am not reading anything suggesting that these roles are in any way influenced by your MMR or SR on other roles. If they were that would be unbelievably stupid and nonsensical and completely defeats the purpose of having separate SRs.
I’m saying in any case where they don’t have a direct quote from the devs that you should take anything they say with skepticism because they may have interpretted something differently than what someone merely mentioned in passing or in a discord chat. These aren’t professional journalists. Content creators like YO are known to say whatever is the flavor of the week from the forums and on reddit and it’s very easy to make assumptions and theories based on anecdotes and misunderstood data. There’s still a mind boggling number of people walking about here claiming the matchmaker is rigged to force a 50% win rate and constantly proclaim “proof” of misinterpreting old dev quotes and showing anecdotal evidence.
Oh, I know. Let me just lay out the following for you and tell me what you think.
You believe that if you are a returning player only who only ever played one role, that Blizzard will use some math and a developed system to try and place you accurately weighted on your role’s MMR and how people in that role at that rank. perform. However, if you are a post-role queue player who has 500 hours in a tank at a masters level and queue for, let’s say support, that even tho they have explicitly said they have a system to place players who have an established MMR in only one role, they don’t use it. Instead, we treat that role as basically a new account and they go into those placements raw.
Well, thank god for that. Look I’m not saying there aren’t bad content creators profiting off of youtube bait titles or whatever, but I think your general opinions and how you’ve applied them here are basically bad faith. I think YO, for example, has a pretty sterling record and is clearly analytically-minded.
A lot of these people, especially the ones I’ve cited,
Love this game
Have given their life to this game
Make it their mission to represent the community, inform the community, and increase comprehension of the game.
Have constant contact with pros and t500, and use that contact to echo them, challenge them, and make sure we’re all aware of what the top thinkers and movers are saying.
Are trusted enough by the devs to have discord with them, be invited to HQ, be interviewed and take questions by them, and generally make it a priority to interact with them.
Sorry Activision-Blizzard would prefer you find matches faster even if it continues the less quality trend. Ask people what time zone they are playing from and watch almost half will come from outside your time zone just to make you get into a match faster yet get hidden crap latency. Flex was the final nail in they don’t and won’t care about proper matching anymore for anything. Just throw them in the machine faster and faster is it.
So this depends a bit on what you mean by returning player. Based on the devs description, it would be my assumption that when they developed role queue, they duplicated your MMR across all three roles, and then for a few months prior to release, they adjusted it in the background based on your performance on each role. By the time role queue was officially introduced and went live, players would have a unique per-role MMR, but the accuracy of that MMR would depend very heavily on how much they played. So a one-trick top500 torb player like Fuey is probably going to have a top500 MMR for tank and support even though he’s never played them.
For new players (post-role queue), if someone starts the game and picks nothing other than torb for their lifetime and 500 hours later decides to play Mercy for the first time, then I admit I’m unsure what the initial seeding of the MMR on their support role would be. We do know that QP performance does seed initial competitive MMR, but I’m unaware of any evidence suggesting that once that MMR is established that it’s in any way influenced by your highest MMR. I have seen many players whose per-role SR differs by 2 ranks (e.g. masters DPS and then plat in tank/support, for example).
So for players who actually completely one trick, then perhaps there is some initial seeding, and I may be wrong there.
Perhaps it’s important to clear up a possible misunderstanding here. The post of yours I initially replied to said:
“the system heavily weighs your mmr against your highest mmr”
Are you talking about specifically players with zero play time on an entire role? Because my interpretation of this statement was that playing any role, regardless of play time, is weighted against your best role (e.g. that all three roles’ MMRs are in some way intertwined based on your best one).
Well I’ll respect your opinion here, but I’ll have to disagree on the idea of using them as a source for anything. Without a direct quote/statement from the devs, I cannot consider anything they say more than an opinion piece. Even the statements of top500 and even pro players are typically opinions. Those players have biases just like everyone else.
I’m not saying they’re not putting out fake information in bad faith, just that most of what they say is typically just opinion.
I will cede I could of been clearer here. Yes im talking about people with 0 or close to 0 playtime on roles outside of their main role.
I admit this next thing is entirely anecdotal, but it seems theres alot of dps mains who have never or almost never played tank and healer before. Players like that after all are a contributing factor, if not the majority factor, for flex que.
Well I can respect what I assume is rigorous vetting for the truth. Id only point out that there is a difference between s T500 giving an actual opinion about balance or how the game should be, which some poeple listen to and others dont, different convo, and then a person either reporting on the devs or building a case against something to give us insight where there is not alot of transparency. By all means, have a healthy degree of skepticsm. Thats probably good.
