I suggest you pay more attention
No one suffers from a guild system
Take doll point were hammer shattered you, stats buff arenât biggest powercreep, sigma with multitasking kit is the definition of a creeper.
Nothing has changed much just donât get in the hammer range and on the rein side im going to be a tad more aggressive as i have more reward for the risks i take.
On a macro scale of things across the entire playerbase, I donât really see how having guilds is going to improve the ratio of DPS players to Tank players.
If anything, it would just make it so non-guild tanking is even more insufferable.
Which kinda cancels any benefit youâd get across the total population.
Additionally, matchmaking for large groups has always been problematic and slow. Usually with lopsided wins or losses.
So even if you had a guild system, queue speeds would probably not improve much.
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I agree
⌠Not so much imo
I donât disagree. I am just saying That the issue is a catch 22 based in social factors beyond pure balance
A- even when they were stronger, tanks werenât as popular. So thatâs only a smol percentage being propped up
B- the reason they were nerfed was in favor of popularism. Dps are the most hindered by tanks and tanks have been made to not only appeal to dps players to play as, but to play against
C- tank is inherently unpopular along with supports. Across platforms. Across games. This is a steady aspect of tank as a role.
So imo, acting like itâs just a matter of buffing them to do a job they are already less popular and nerfed for⌠Is pretty much setting up everyone for failure. You canât have your cake and eat it too. The devs need to decide what population is more important. And let the rest cry about it
Itâs a fricking dead role rats and pigs call themselves tanks these days.
You literally have to raise the tank mains from dead to form a guild.
Thatâs the catch, I believe the issue is that Tanks have a lot less self sufficiency without relying on the team.
Notably healthpacks are not designed for Tanks. But they give a lot of autonomy to 200hp heroes.
Realistically, out of combat self heals, and lethality is how you attract DPS players to the Tank role.
Not âI never die if my whole team pockets meâ kinda power.
A lot of genji mains being cringe trying to get rein nerfed so ana can nano them.
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I donât think so. Tanka werenât invented by ow. Plenty of other games have tanks and they are always unpopular regardless of the self sustaining nature.
Tanks could have a full stop monopoly of health packs, and exclude anyone under 400 hp from getting them and tanks still wouldnât be popular.
Nothing is likely to make any significance between the ratio of the roles. Not increasing the damage, not making them stupid OP, not making a brawler specific role.
Though making the experience of tanking more enjoyabe will increase the retention rate and possibly get people to try new heroes and role because when people are playing with people they know and trust, they are more likely to try new things than they would with a bunch of random people.
Though even if not many new people try playing tank, that doesnât matter because those that do are more likely to stay and the overall game experience will improve.
Fun >>>>>>> Getting into a game fast. Such a thing is undeniable.
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I think trying to cram too much MOBA/RPG logic into whatâs basically a Class Based Shooter, is the problem.
Tanks should be closer to âHeaviesâ instead of âDamage Sponges with legsâ
Youâre making assumption that role queue is in place because there was 5 dps every match.
It was introduced as the devs couldnât balance Brig or goats for OWL (nobody cares about ladder. It should be apparent because it doesnât matter if youâre 5001SR. Youâll never get into OWL directly from ladder unless youâve got a brother in one of the teams).
Anyways, rein wouldnât need buffs (he was fine and I say that although I play rein). Because double shield is meta, you need buffs to make these heroes âviableâ. Except you arenât closing distance to double shields on rein without a lucio.
I think thereâs a stats person in Blizzard who should be rechecked for OCD. Pickrates shouldnât be the driving force behind nerfs or buffs.
The entire ladder was perfect few patches earlier. Surprisingly, everyone praised the balance team to finally make the game fun and balanced.
Guess what they do? Goes and buffs Baptist because every hero should have equal pickrate and winrate unless it happens to be Brig/Sym/Torb (one of the sleeper heroes).
Not to mention they made soldier weird to play. The screen shake can make you nauseated after 5 matches.
At this point, we should accept the current game as a glorified demo for OW2. Itâs easier to accept such balance decisions in that way.
On a side note, if they canât balance a game for 1.5 years for 1 hero, itâs unlikely that youâll get a balanced game with OW2 for 2 years with 7-8 new heroes.
That just leads you back to where Iâm at: delete tanks. Which imo, the devs seem to have pondered in the past . (Some cruel bastard made me dig through old archives and I was listening to the role que toss up ideas and it had me go 
)
We also had that. And that was nerfed as well because of the âtanks are better dpsâ debacle: zarya, hog, dva, even orisa
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You get 0 feedback for playing tanks.
Landing crits on hitscans? Thereâs a sound queue.
Even mercy gets a sound queue for her kit.
Compare that to playing most tanks.
0 feedback.
Iâd argue that doesnât matter in a 2-2-2 context, where you are forced to use DPS, and canât stack more than 2 Tanks.
That DPS would still be plenty popular if Tanks had more overall value to capturing objectives. And that you just gotta make sure Tanks arenât too strong in DPS vs Tank duels.
Iâd also argue that not fixing queue times, is economic suicide for OW2 launch.
And the few people who would quit over âTanks that play like DPSâ are tiny compared to that.
Never though of it like that.
I get that argument but my point is we just left that. That even in 222 you have
Zarya hog meta- which people got sick of because they are too dps
And reaper mei- where they had the audacity to say it was reaper mei goats.
People donât like tanks and get anything around them nerfed. Thatâs a social issue. Not balance.
dva is stronger, zarya is stronger, winston i think is stronger, hog obviously is worse but in general all tanks are better now
A vocal minority of people are gonna complain. Water is wet. The sky is blue. So what?
Fix the problem, or the game dies. And ignore the tiny minority.
Because in the grand scheme of things, itâs totally worthwhile losing 1% of your playerbase, to grow it by 10%.
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No I am not, I have always been against such an assumption.
I pay Rein as well and I thought he was fine. His issue was that Lucio isnât that good anymore and that Double Shield counters his playstyle.
Exactly. Things could have been improved of course, but it was in a healthy state which they ruined.
Very true, though perhaps we will get the nostalgia from the first couple of seasons where people were new to the game and things were chaotic in a fun way.
I wouldnât say sounds are a big issue. I find it hard to picture someone playing tank and saying to themselves âYa know, I would be having so much more fun if I heard a âdinkâ soundâ.
Who says its a minority?
If this is a problem across games and persists beyond the various past balances⌠Clearly whatever percentg it itâŚmatters
Yes. But you arenât growing anything. Youâre working with the same numbers. This isnât launch. We arenât bringing people in. We are keeping them happy.
Tanks donât make people happy