Rein is now a bigger problem hero than Mercy

General Discussion
547

You seem to be mistaken in your perception of my language.

As the rein it is not your job to duel a reaper. If a reaper is behind you and killing you then your team will deal with him. That is what I meant when I said “equally skilled.” If the reaper is the same skill as your dps, then your dps should win bc reaper is distraced on you.

Again, you don’t understand the point I am making. I had quoted your statement that heroes such as reinhardt are not skill dependent and are the same from bronze to gm. That is what you said isnt it?

Yes, I suppose that is what you said. My response to this was that no, there is a difference between a bronze reinhardt and a gm reinhradt because one has game sense and is actively helping the team while the other acts as a bot and holds up the shield aimlessly. You seem to take this as, “well both teams have a reinhardt of equal skill and game sense so your wrong.”

On second thought, I’m not actually sure what you thought I meant.

Also theres this.

This is not true. I can understand what your thinking, but game sense can only get you so far before mechanics are needed. At gm, widowmakers and hanzos are extremely good at the game, making life as a tank (with a lower skill cieling than a sniper) difficult. Tanks would have to play differently, which results in different comps, which results in different play styles. The point I’m trying to make is that pros have a fuller understanding of the game, and can find advantages where gold players can’t find any.

Say its Hanamura, and the gold teams drew because neither of them could cap 1st. (Very possible scenario) A team in gm would be able to diagnose the situation and chage team comps or play styles to find a way to cap the point, thus winning the game. Defense becomes harded at higher levels (at least on some points) because the game is so offensively-oriented. When you think about it, offense on Hanamura is very attack-favored because of the high ground overlooking the choke and the respawn advantage.

So yes, while the games are more difficult, they aren’t as impossible as some lower games seem because of the high level technical skills, complex strategies, and advantages.

Most games in other ranks are just “kil dem an win”

548

As a Tank Main, his bugs frustrate the ever-loving hell out of me, and it’s cost me so many games this past week alone.

549

oh im sorry do you need the same MECHANICAL SKILL as widow or mcree

do you need that MECHANICAL SKILL to hit someone at melee range because you know full well I meant MECHANICAL SKILL and if me typing MECHANICAL SKILL like this isn’t clear to you then you are ignoring my point that each hero is had different variations of MECHANICAL SKILL otherwise this game would be vastly different if they all had the same MECHANICAL SKILL Is that clear enough?

I can keep copy pasting that quote because you keep ignoring it, guess what a gm doesn’t need any actual gamesense against in actual bronze player they need the most basic of senses that everyone has so your little “game sense argument” is already invalid in this competitive scenario because unless they are smurfing which is manipulating the sr by boosting the team your on and forcing heavy drops of sr on the team you smurfed and is very bannable as thats sr manipulation your scenario should never exist, the fact that it does is in part to god awful matchmaking and MECHANICAL SKILL would be more dominant than game sense.

let me simplify the quote sense you don’t understand; co-operating teams of equal skill which includes game sense as that is also in fact a skill vs the exact same skill level, your argument is high vs low, not low vs low, not high vs high; a very stupid argument that has nothing to do with my point and shouldn’t exist in competitive matches because of the sr limit it is entirely pointless and moot as it comes down to "well if this lower skilled team fights a higher skill team in competitve, at which point MECHANICAL SKILL is needed more than game sense because with MECHANICAL SKILL they low skill team wouldn’t even get to leave spawn because the high skill team would use there MECHANICAL SKILL and block all entrances while doing the most basic thing of hiding behind a wall and have a healer heal them.

you want another scenario fine; a zarya bubbles the reaper who doesn’t wraith in but instead flanks saving that wraith to bail. meanwhile in those 2 seconds tracer is unloading a full clip in a distracted mercy and recalls away while reaper wraith forms out and is healed from a distance by ana or moiras healing orb, the zarya has a decent charge they are down one person and they can all rush in with tracer finishing off the rien or another healer kicking them down to 4v6 in a matter of under 10 seconds. There is your high skilled high MECHANICAL SKILL high game sense counter argument Rien couldn’t tank and save the healer(s) leaving himself open a few seconds later and his team wiped. the massive issue with any examples with these is never game sense its MECHANICAL SKILL as MECHANICAL SKILL determines who dies first not game sense MECHANICAL SKILL will save you behind with a well placed crit shot not game sense. game sense is a very minor factor in even matches because both teams should now equally what to do with who and where to go at that point its MECHANICAL SKILL you can have T500 game sense but gold MECHANICAL SKILL and be stuck in gold, you can have T500 MECHANICAL SKILL and gold game sense and be at diamond or masters.

again your entire argument is moot and invalid because the discussion isn’t High vs low, it’s low vs low and high vs high comparison but you don’t ever do that your scenarios are countered by the enemy team having the “game sense” to counter your examples of positioning if they have MECHANICAL SKILL they have a much much better chance of beating out that game sense positioning. STOP making it one vs the other.

550

Im going to stop arguing now because it seems like you are so enraged that “Mechanical Skill” is all you are thinking about. If you can’t handle my opinion on the matter then simply go to a different thread.

Tanks dont require MECHANICAL SKILL and thus, with gold level mechanical skill and t500 gamesense, you can easily climb as a tank. Tanks dont hit headshots, they use GAME SENSE to help the team. Dps heroes require MECHANICAL SKILL, not tanks. (Excluding hammond)

551

My argument was about a game of gold players versus gold players compared to a game of gm players versus gm players. Ik gm players would beat gold players. Im not stupid. Gm players find advantages against other gm players making the game more complex. Gm players use positioning and strategy to win objectives while for the most part gold players use mechanical skill to win matches. I apologize if you don’t understand, I’ve made myself as clear as possible

552

Smurfing is not a bannable offense by any means. A lot of people like to create “smurf” accounts at lower ranks to practice heroes that they normally dont play at thier rank. Its not sr manipulation because its a new account and can lose sr just as easily as any other account. Boosting is bannable, smurfing is not. Even T500 is filled with smurfs

553

MECHANICAL SKILL is just one skill. Aiming to a decent degree isnt hard, its a learned action that requires muscle memory. Everyone gets it to some level if they play enough. Its clicking on stuff.

Decent game sense and being a good team-mate are things some people never learn, doesnt matter how good you are at point and left click.

MECHANICAL SKILL is used as a word people who think they’re special use to put down others who cant left click as well.

2 Likes
554

Lmao

Have you ever played Rein in a comp game? Its like a game of ping pong, and Rein is the ball.

The only reason why hes chosen so much now is because the meta favors him. He didn’t magically become overpowered overnight.

2 Likes
555

So those roads to diamond/masters didn’t inherently boost anyone huh? or hey how bout when the smurf wants to stay in that rank and blows the next matches by “aiming poorly” that still isn’t SR manipulation, it’s not like they can fake it or anything right? using the “game sense” to pick the obvious path of failure.

556

My mechanical skill is pretty crap but if that dps or hell all but two healers have better mechanical skill than me and can fighter off the counters on their own do you seriously think game sense will be effective. my entire argument is that game sense is moot in equal skill it boils down to mechanical skill and teamwork something that low level six stacks would have which is another part of the argument.

557

lol what? monkey is stronger than rein.

what is overpowered about rein? honestly?

all 3 shield tanks are strong. if any of them are OP, it’s Winston. if anything, Rein is actually the weakest one of the 3. he just works the best with Brig. Same goes for Zarya. DVA is a stronger hero than Zarya. The issue here is brigitte. She is overpowered, and so the meta is shifting to enable her as best as possible. That means Rein/Zarya/Lucio/Moira/Brig, plus 1 flex.

But… Brig is not as OP as mercy was, and so there is more counter play to goats comp, and so it’s less prevalent.

this is just a mercy main trolling because they’re mad their hero was balanced, and the pick rates were part of that argument.

558

how much did you get paid to make this thread?

this is comedy gold

559

hoo boy, lets see your last response contradicts your latest one, you’re going to stop because it’s getting us nowhere and your points that game sense allows you to climb over mechanical skill is wrong even as a tank, your dps teams will be carrying or dropping you with their mechanical skill should you stick with tank the entire game should you switch to one of those heroe than your mechanical skill plays a part.

Your hanamura example is again made moot especially two years after the map has been at and there’s a bunch of strats and counter strats which once again, boils down to who can kill faster which mostly boils down to who can aim at what better. your point on game sense is lost here as you said yourself it’s attack oriented; if the two sides were dead even offense would eventually get point a do to faster respawn and a closer spawn point, NOT game sense or mechanical skill, and games like that boil down to who can get offense the third round as that is still a coin flip, no animation or otherwise.

or Orisa,D.va and Roadhog and with a bit of a stretch, Zarya with her alt fire literally most of the tank heroes require mechanical skill winston and Rien do a set giant sweep radius you can still poke at someone from a medium distance with d.vas micro missiles, she still lands crits, orisa speaks for herself as does roadhog, and again zarya’s alt fire allows her to hit for a decent amount of damage when charged from far distances.

560

Again, im all done arguing if you keep refusing to comprehend words. I mean dont you learn that in like 2nd grade? So heres the last of what im going to say, so try not to let it fly over your head.

If a gm tank played in gold, would they climb? The answer is yes, and not because they use dva to click heads and get six-man kills. Sure, it requires skill to hit a roadhog hook, but it takes more and better aim to carry on soldier or mccree. Positioning matters more as a tank than a dps, and aim matters more as a dps than a tank. Do you think xcq would win every widow battle? No. His aim is ok, but not pine level. It doesnt need to be.

As a tank, your dps do not decide the outcome of the game. You do. The tank. Tanks can carry just as much as dps. Play a tank once in a while, and you might learn that it doesnt take raw head-clicking to do anything in the game. And if that happens, then switching to dps from tank is just throwing the game. I dont know why you even said this. Must be rage induced.

One last thing.

Uh…
Im speachless…

Do you even know how the game works???

So… if you done Im really bored with arguing with you.

561

you mean you exactly? you have barley made in valid arguments they all compare gold to high and not equal to equal that is literally all of your arguments

you see this you see your own post here that is comparing to groups, this is you comparing a 2nd grader to a high school students class assignment

aside from literally all but two tanks we just had this with the previous, flank tanks are made to take heavy hits while disrupting the enemy teams position this also includes taking anyone out generally those with low health or are close to a cliff, why do you think their movement abilities have knock back why do you think they can use them frequently because its certianly not to protect their team by taking bullets, zarya is the greatest example of this because a good zarya does a lot of the damage with her high charge rate, her bubbles take over 6 seconds each and only one can be used on an ally the other you better hope your close enough to cover your friend for 2 seconds. And your right (depending on the tank) however your tanking and poor dps teammates won’t let you climb

I know this towards the “coin flip” (they removed the animation thing but it its still a factor) which yes you can in fact get offense twice in a row after the FOURTH match I incorrectly stated 3rd

however this also works against your arguments as literally only two tanks can actually properly tank in this game if zarya is focused and doesn’t back off something a tank SHOULDN’T do so quickly she will die because she is a giant easy target with no bubble to save her, rien and orisa have shields with a short cooldown or a lot of health, winston is too close range with a long cooldown on his shield and small attack range. this is ccwatch. this is dps watch, rien is only doing great because he techincally has over 2k hp, literally the only reason is because he is the only tank that can actually tank as long as he has that shield.

MMR SR turns the head of this scenario even with a new account if they ONLY played specific tanks like rien and not focused on doing any DPS which is a very controlled expermient, then by law of averages yes because he would tank just enough to cover for poor dps however that can take an entire season or more depending on who gets matched with, this argument is just way to vauge to be used with the restrictions of only tanking and never dpsing, it’s also nearly impossible as again you have to go through 25 levels of not dpsing which means less gold medals or wins for that matter and it just takes longer. but to use your own argument agains’t you, how fast would he climb if he dpsed with roadhog, orisa, or zarya? a lot faster than just defending I can tell you that.

If you respond to this you don’t want to discuss you want to win an argument, your points about game sense being more necessary than mechanical skill require mechanical skill to back it up making them moot when you see you can climb with JUST game sense, or you can climb with JUST tanking in a team based game where is you are ONLY tanking your teams dps decided weather or not you climb and how fast. All of your arguments are on what if cases that rarley happen, or they compare to ranks to try and say well game sense for gm is better because gold is lower. completely ignoring the fact that you can have the best dam game sense but god awful aim and be stuck in plat because you can’t save yourself.

I will end this with this, no one can be in high tier without having above average game sense and above average mechanical skill, however one is more important than the other still as this objective based team game will still have you shooting at people trying to be in one set area, game sense will help you get there or flank those getting there but mechanical skill will stop,defend, and be more important when on the objective.

562

Reinhardt is not overpowered, his counters are just not popular enough and 2000hp barrier is one of the strongest basic abilities in the game.

563

First off, you are in gold, okay so you have NO IDEA what a real game is. Nor the mind set of what it takes to climb and get up to high elo’s.

Your opinion and statement is far from the truth.

Second, Rein has been indirectly affected by the metas, Briggite and Doomfist alone is all that needs to be said. He gets F***ED through his shield constantly from CC in this game.

I don’t even need to bring up also how easy it is to break his shield now more than ever from the Powercreep over the past 2 years.

He is not OP, even in the slightest.

564

Ive tried to make myself clear. Im sorry you cant understand that mechanical skill alone does not win games. Try rereading what i wrote with a different mindset and maybe your brain might open up to different opinions. Mechanical skill and game sense are both very important, but tanks need more game sense than mechanics to make an impact pn the game. Im not saying that you can play tank without a mouse, because every hero needs some kind of mechanics, but winston isnt as aim-heavy as widow is.

In the hanamura example, which you cant stop quoting, I was comparing a game at gold level vs a game at gm level. Thats a comparison from low vs low compared to high vs high. Tanks are different on different places on the ladder, and thats what I was arguing.

Incorrect. Winston and dva are made to dive supports and/or dps and bring their own dps with them. They engage the dive, not stand there and take bullets. They arent normal tanks, and i suppose you cant see that.

Sudden death was removed after season 6.

Your taking me oit of context. You had said there is bo difference between a bronze tank and a gm tank. I asked you if a gm tank was in gold, would he climb. Stop thinking too much into it. If bronze and gm tanks are the same that means that no tank player would ever be able to climb. There is a big difference between gm and bronze, and if a gm tank was in gold, then he would climb. Its that simple, stop thinking so much into it to try and squeeze something out of my argument.

If this is true, then why can you carry as dps? If its a team based game, then nobody should be able to carry right?

Wrong. A good enough tabk can absolutley carry a game. If you cant see that then you need to play the game more.

You were just arguing on a case that never happens…

If thats the case, then PLAY A TANK. My aim sucks, and my tracking is just about manageable. Im in diamond right now because of playing zarya. Also. Junkrat. Doesnt. Require. Aim.

To add to what I said earlier about not wanting to argue, i dont. But i cannot stand people that ignore you because they dont like your opinion. I also dont like runon sentences, so please use periods.

565

I will no longer listen to you now i’ll just leave this

566

That was not my intention. Ik you said that, but the rest of your argument was the exact opposite. I understand there are instances where mechanics are more important, but you only need average mechanics to play a tank. AVERAGE MECHANICS. Like aiming with dva. Its not widow, but its not old sym either.