🥏 Reaper and Sym should be Lurkers not Flankers (don't make them Beyblade Heroes)

You can blame Shadestep and Teleporter for that no value, if it worked better (and I don’t mean faster)… that would be a different story.

Ah kk, thanks for the clarification!

She already got a baseball bate to the skull sending her concussed in the wrong direction so wouldn’t surprise me if they focus on the wrong aspects again. Tho faster tp would help her out alot.

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Movie starting, but I left enough info. Going afk

Flight doesn’t really add anything to Genji’s kit. We could add that right in and nothing would really change.

And they do need to be like Tracer. For most of the roster, lurking in OW is better described as feeding on yolo flanks.

See this for more on how it can work as Old Sym 329 Days Since The Start of this post about Sym (3/5/19)

You know that Reaper was originally going to be a flanker, right? And then the devs were like, "what were we thinking? "He’s just gonna teleport to the backline for free, kill supports without effort because they can’t fight back against Reaper, Wraith Form away for free, and rinse and repeat. That’s why Shadow Step stays absolutely garbage whle Reaper gets buffed into a tankbuster.

Sym wouldn’t work as a flanker, utility flanking is Sombra’s thing. Symmetra would have to use her teleporters more selfishly instead getting multiple teammates including herself into good positions. Every part of her kit also has a wind up to it, so good luck striking from the shadows.

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Look it’s not the shadows… it’s just behind you… like Sombra, Pharah and Junkrat currently can do.

I get they don’t want to teleport an entire team… so maybe reduce that to 3…

But this was Sym 2.0 as I remember it. Slip though the choke, plant Teleporter, coordinate with team, Ambush.

By not going this direction, they are literally killing what’s tiny bit that’s left of old Sym.

Yeah, I don’t know how they flubbed these skills so badly. Teleport requiring a key you never hit and you have to spam it often to get it to register. And the mechanics of shadow step aside, the skill itself is broken. If you hit teleport then quickly click to place it, you shoot instead. There is a slight delay before the left mouse click becomes “place”.

I mean…there’s a reason I run them more on defense than I do offense. There’s a few cases where you can push with them, but not super often. Heroes with short range are naturally more defensive since the enemy needs to come to you.

If you have it work in 3rd person that would not be a issue, think DF Ult

Yeah, and a practical version of shadow step would make flanking a point and click ability for Reaper. This would make it easy to negate Reaper’s range weakness by simply teleporting and wraith forming back and forth. He’d be an extremely safe and in many ranks oppressive flanker.

I didn’t like that strat, it was such an all or nothing move but instead of even truely setting up and engagement they were just trying to set up a “surprise attack.”

I think TP is better as a utility meant to enable a wider variety of strategies, especially with the reduction in turrets.

Agreed, and you could pick a spot that isn’t clearly visible to every single player on the enemy team.

You might not like the Strat but literally half the Heroes have ways around choke points.

D. Va is literally a surprise attack with how her entire kit works

Even the new hero can make chokes pointless

Lurkers used to work, but the pace of the game has shifted to be so fast that no one plays like they used to. Everyone knows to just rush and fight on point, the era where hanging out over on the left side and ‘covering it’ from attackers while your team defends the point is gone, it’s now a CONSTANT brawl. Maybe it’s different for top players but in all of my matches it’s nothing but a constant smashfest. There’s not enough time in the game for you to lurk.

Again blame Dive, Goats and other patches for that

I played when Dive was a thing, back when Dive was a thing you COULD lurk because often times Dive needed to split up and put resources into multiple avenues of attack, as not all characters are capable of diving.

I think it’s not about the meta, it’s about how much players know the game. Back when Dive was meta and everyone hated it, people had only been playing for Z amount of time. Now it’s been longer, everyone has realized that there are these shortcuts; you don’t need to slowly encroach space if y’all just show up super fast as a group and smash everything.

It’s not really that GOATS is a problem with the characters being balanced the way they are [even though that’s part of it don’t get be wrong] but it’s also a social / community waking up to the possibilities of how to play the game in ways that the game wasn’t meant to be played.

Obviously the OW team wants you to have great battles and claim space over time, that’s how the game was meant to be played. Goats sorta proved that you don’t need to wait, just have Lucio boost you on and there’s nothing a non-goats team can do about it, basically.

Symmetra is weak to Genji unless she has a full charge going already. No turrets are not something that stops him unless the genji is a potato.

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Which is why its a good thing one or two heroes can bring everyone else up to speed.

Might as well say D.va and Sombra do the same thing, too. A D.va pouncing a badly positioned enemy is so different from a Symmetra trying to inconspicuously set up a cheesy flank. I remember some one else once saying they loved how impactful that play can be, but here’s the thing: its just luck, a left hook thrown to trip up the opponent. That is not worth balancing a hero’s kit around imo.

Between the fact that you have to track him while he’s circe de soleiing all around [I see we went from not much aim needed to ALL the aim needed, yeah that’s a change that makes sense for that character! Why shouldn’t we have Widow 2.o??] and the fact that your turrets now take longer to set up and deploy to get at him, Genji is the worst.