PSA: Tanks aren't being net-buffed for OW2

General Discussion
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So many people have been posting about how 5v5 will be great because it will let them buff tanks, since tank synnergy isn’t a thing anymore.

Nowhere in any comments from the devs have they actually said they’re buffing tanks to make them feel more powerful. Pretty much all evidence we have points to the contrary:

Current tank changes we’ve seen playtested:
D.va:
Defense Matrix: Used at same rate, regens faster, has extra second of duration
Primary Fire: Movement speed penalty reduced from 50% to 30%, spread reduced from 4 to 3.5
Status: Net-buffed

Reinhardt:
Charge: More maneuverable, can be cancelled early
Firestrike: Has two charges on one cooldown (like Tracer blink), does 95dmg each
Health: 250/300 health/armor from 300/200
Shield: Health is 1200 from 1600
Status: I’d say net-nerfed or net neutral, changes are useful, but not nearly enough to add up to missing 400 barrier hp.

Zarya:
Particle Barrier: Has two charges on same 9s cooldown (like Tracer blink)
If both are used at same time, 18s until both bubbles are back online
Bubbles last longer, initially 3s but now 2.5s
Bubble cooldown starts immediately, rather than when it vanishes
Status: Definitely net-nerfed, moving the bubbles to a shared cooldown means they aren’t recharging together, drastically reduces their uptime.

Winston:
Alt Fire: Hitscan lightning that pierces, works like Sym bubbles, 25m range, does 50dmg
Barrier Projector: Time reduced from 9s to 8s, timer seen in center of screen
Health reduced to 600HP from 700HP, health can be seen by all allies
Status: Net buffed, I think (depends on how useful the rail gun actually is)

So just from these changes, it doesn’t look terrible. It’s disturbing that 3/4 of the changes show LESS defense, especially on characters like Winston or Zarya who are currently VERY reliant on the other tank to survive.

But then we have to factor in the real kickers:

-DPS will be moving faster than tanks, which gives a huge disadvantage.
To make up for it, they get displacement resistance that helps tanks PRIMARILY against other tanks… only 3 DPS in the roster even have displacements. The “less ult charge” also doesn’t actually make them feel any more powerful to play either.

-Reduced healing (and the Devs HAVE confirmed that healing will be reduced) is a huge hit to tank survivability, barely at all a hit to the survivability of other roles. Tanks will feel the healing reduction far more than anyone else.

-Lack of a second tank to cycle defensive abilities with is a HUGE hit. The whole reason dive comps can work is because you’ve got both tanks cycliing with eachother. D.va / Ball works because D.va absorbs AND ball tanks with shields.
Tank synnergy is extremely powerful, taking that away will undoubtely make each tank feel weaker.

So the BARELY net buffs we’re seeing for some tanks don’t result in a net buff for the role all around.

Which is why we also have pros talking about how tanks felt very powerless in the 5v5 experimental they played.

It’s why pretty much everyone who’s played the new mode says TTK is LOWER and that it feels like a deathmatch.

Nothing we’ve seen actually shows a net buff for tanks in 5v5.

This is purely here to try and squash the common “5v5 will allow tanks to be more powerful” argument. This is not being done so that tanks can be “allowed” to be more powerful, please stop repeating that refrain.

We have no evidence that tanks will be more “independent.” Nerfing defenses (and buffing DPS heroes wholesale) does not result in more independence for tanks.

We have no evidence that tanks will be “mega-buffed” like people keep suggesting. Tanks seem to be getting a grab bag of buffs/nerfs, which pales in comparison to the negative effects of losing 1 tank and losing a lot of healing.

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To be fair, we genuinely do not know what changes are happening and can only truly judge them as a whole in context. But I more or less agree, the direction looks pathetic. Doubt tanks will be better off relatively speaking.

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True.

But the community has been saying “5v5 will allow them to buff tanks!” ever since 5v5 was announced. That seemed to be most people’s assumption: all those tank nerfs over the last 2 years could be reverted and tanks could be more powerful, now that we don’t have to deal with the threat of Double Shield or GOATS-like things.

Blizzard has never once said that’s what they’re doing. That’s my main point here. People have been assuming that, but there is 0 confirmation of it, and everything we’re seeing suggests the opposite.

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If the number of dps doesn’t change per team but you get 1 tanks less, it is a nerf.

The current changes aren’t even close to being good enough for compensating the lack of a tank.

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Is funny that they only interviewed tank players like Super. Who of course won’t like the changes since he’s used to being a shield bot.

That is the point of OW2. Which is one of the charges that Blizzards wants, as to get away from the sluggish gameplay of OW1.

Who said they were doing this?
If you were paying attention to what the devs have been stating they want for tanks in OW2 , you’ll know they never directly said this.
What they said it’s more in line of making tanks more engaging to play. And not depend on barriers as much or at all.
They don’t want tanks to just be shield bots.

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Yep, I don’t have my hopes up for off tanks especially.
Looks like the “omg tanks OP” crowd got what they wanted. Great.

Why am I not surprised? It’s because this trash direction the balance team has been taking this game. I wouldn’t be surprised if they removed all shields by the time OW2 came out so more hitscans can be clicking heads. It’s gonna be like team deathmatch lmao.

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Tbh zarya probably got the better part of the deal compared to other tanks but e have still yet to see how that one would play out.

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I think its more appropriate to say they can be more aggressive, not necessarily more powerful.

Take Rein for instance. Yea, he might be worse if you plan on shield botting with him, but the whole point is to move him away from that playstyle, which is something a lot of people have asked for since launch.

This isn’t as big of a hit as you might think. Have to remember that healers no longer have to split their resources between two tanks anymore. If they didn’t reduce healing, then the tank would recieve essentially double the heals they get on live, which is a lot. Toning down heals is a no brainer, other wise literally nothing would die.

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There are in place where they dont want to overbuff tanks even solo because it would make dps feel bad about not being able to still 1v1 them like they can now.
Problem with tanking is that to much easy to spam high dmg will always exist and be targeted at tank because its easiest way to get numbers up. Something they dont fix, maybe even buff dmg of some heroes because “one less tank means less dmg and we want to compensate that”
Also remember, they have no idea how to deal with removing cc without buffing dmg, what we saw so far and heard is going to happen. Because that will for sure help :smiley:

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We need actual reworks. The way Defense Matrix is spent, and how it recharges needs to be re-done.

Same for Reinhardt. Zarya needs a new ability to go with the bubble

Winston has something new. - Great.

Orisa is being re-worked, and so is Sigma, apparently. Honestly, for this to be an actual sequel, 90% of the characters need reworks. I guess I’d count Winston, but everyone should be changed up as much as Bastion and Sombra were, but don’t make them OP, or feeling foreign to people who played them previously.

The changes actually are pretty terrible. If they were just gonna change a few numbers here and there, then it’s no different than what they could have done with a simple balance patch.

People make more significant changes than the whole of overwatch 2 in the workshop.

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By now people should expect that if somethings seems like a no brainer/common sense kind of thing, blizzard will do the exact freaking opposite. ¬_¬

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You are also forgetting the biggest buff to tanks in 5v5. There is one less tank doing damage.

This tank is not there spamming damage down a corridor or whatever.

I mean Orisa can do 132dps to a Rein barrier right now. If Orisa isn’t there and it’s just Sigma, are you really missing that 400hp on Rein’s barrier? That 400hp would’ve lasted 3s vs Orisa.

Tank synergy, is hard. Nobody can use it except GMs and that’s why nobody likes tanking.

Because playing Orisa Sigma is about angles and crossfires yet Golds will just bunker down.

Playing Rein Zarya is about cycling cooldowns and defenses but often this results in one zarya bubble on rein swinging and then the comp goes to chaos.

Playing Winston D.Va requires heavy co-ordination and setting up engagements. Nobody. Does. This.

Nobody uses these tank synergies properly but they’re balanced around being used properly. So how could they ever feel powerful.

Removing these synergies gives the tank more agency.

But context matters.

Her defenses are weaker. But she is almost guranteed to get charge from these bubbles now. So Zarya is in effect doing more damage. Not saying she isn’t bad but the dev team (Who’s experience is as good as any of the pros) said that she felt dominant because of how much charge she had.

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Oh we know what approach they are going for, BUFFING JUNKRAT AND TORBJORN BECAUSE THEY CLEARLY STRUGGLE MELTING DOWN TANKS AND SINCE NOW THERE WILL BE JUST ONE THEY CLEARLY NEEDED BUFFS

OH and McCassidy also clearly was struggling and needed buffs. What’s that? 1 hour DPS queue times? I can’t imagine why.
Let’s nerf Ball a little more because clearly this 5 nerfs he had this year weren’t enough. Oh
and D.va too. She clearly is too Overpowered with her DM, let’s make her instantly die when she loses mech so she’s balanced for DPS players.
What’s that? 2 hour DPS queue times? We’ve got the solution, make Rein literally unplayable against Hog and let’s try buffing Hanzo’s storm arrows. This hero is clearly struggling at one shotting 500+HP targets

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I don’t think this is a particularly fair assessment. If you take it to the extreme, removing 4 enemies would leave Reinhardt with a 0 health barrier, but it would supposedly be better because he is expected to deal with less enemies.

It doesn’t quite make sense because your individual impact isn’t based on enemy thoroughput, it’s based on your own.

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But your individual impact is relative. A Brig with a 250HP barrier in 6v6 is powerful. But a 250HP barrier in a 100 player battle royale is terrible.

But considering Rein has been given 2 really big charge buffs which make effectively closing the distance easier (when used smartly) he theoretically doesn’t need the shield to close the distance as easily.

Especially with that extra 50 armour to help tank some damage.

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Hard agree with you.

People are still putting it within the context of 6v6 and how the tanks play/feel/how powerful they are/etc within the current game. In 6v6.

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Not really, a 250 hp shield is just as impactful because someone will still have to spend time to shoot into it. Your shields impact remains similar because it still takes the same amount of effort to break.

The problem is you’re expecting one person to take on an unequal amount of players. To you, it’s useless against 100 players because 100 players are shooting it.

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Tanks don’t necessarily need buffs. What 5v5 allows is better individual balancing for tanks because their balance isn’t held hostage by how they synergize with other tanks

Just think about how many changes Orisa and Sigma had because of how well they work together. With just 1 tank per team they can be balanced individually instead.

But on a side note I would argue Tanks are all not only directly buffed from tank passives (among other changes) but also indirectly buffed because they aren’t sharing heals with another tank anymore

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Thank god. Maybe they can actually do something with Orisa without breaking the game with insta double shield.

I for one can’t wait.

And it allows them to be more creative when making new tanks cause they don’t have to worry about how they’ll interact with current tanks.

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Agreed. I also can’t wait! My 2nd tank is often more frustrating than they are helpful. Just give me the wheel and let’s do this :partying_face:

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