most can’t maintain that sort of performance boost as they move up in SR. A whole lot of “theoretically” sort of paper crafting how to rank up doesn’t tent to work when apply to in game.
there are a lot of urban legend sort of stories connected to Overwatch and the two biggest are the stat trackers who claim “if they…” in either a losing record who ranks up or winning record who moves down. Yet out of 100s and 100s of accounts I’ve looked at stat wise I’ve only seen it truly happen like maybe 3-4 times in 10+ seasons.
being pretty much everyone who is up into 3k+ or has been in the past, got there by way of a higher win rate. My run to 3k in the past was 57% or so. Most of my friends where 55%+ and pretty much every “Why can’t I move SR?!” I’ve seen is 53% or less.
If one can’t win games at a lower SR at a decent rate I don’t know why they would even want to move up in SR anyways. The player is already unable to win games.
I don’t think private profiles make overbuff to reliable anymore. I am mid gold and the #667 sombra (binks#11815). To be low gold and top 1000 sombra does not sound accurate at all. While I do have some good games with her I am by no means able to compete with some of the other sombra players who could be 100 ranks in front of me.
So either overbuff is being messed up by private profiles or lack of a player base. Both are. Very possible.
I have a couple of accounts and can attest that I find games around the gold/plat threshold to be more difficult to win than diamond games at 3200-3400. Let me be very specific: the skill level of the players in diamond is higher, but winning the match at platinum is more difficult because of how the teams are balanced.
Thank you for the advice, but that wasn’t the point of the thread. I would rather play the heroes that I enjoy to play… and wallow in gold, then rank up playing heroes that I don’t enjoy playing. I like to win, but I like to have fun. I’m just not that good at brigitte to justify one-tricking her… I find her usefulness very niche in the way I play her.
The point of the thread is to show that the SR system is doing something counter-intuitive. In a team based game, everyone fills their role and contributes to the victory. Without it, it is near impossible to win a 5v6… especially if you are “in your correct rank” It took me over 1000 games and a derank so low into gold for me to get my first 5v6 win. 5v6 for even a fraction of a time is usually a death sentence. We all know it.
I’m no scrub… even at 2400 in a game that I dc’d during placements my impact was shown. I was gone for 3 mins and my team couldn’t push first point Gibralter. Like they literally couldn’t get out of spawn. I returned and with a minute to go I came back and we didn’t lose a single team fight and won the match. Had it taken me a minute longer to restart my xbox, our team would have lost an easy victory. Was I the carry? I dunno about that, but my impact was very noticable.
My alt shows that I have the capabilites and the ability to play at a higher rank according to the game. It shows that my main is being hampered by some potential legacy issues. This is a very common occurance documented my many people besides me who have created alt accounts.
It is ok to be skepticle, I don’t blame you for that. However, in my experience I’ve had a lot of doubters that wouldn’t take my alt seriously because I play it so sparingly. It is my alt, not my main. But see, it is diamond and I got out of the pbsr area and am judged solely on my ability to win. Guess what? I climbed. Even on my alt, I’ve never had a losing season. In diamond.
See, I play with my friends on this account. My friends are low gold (now dropped to silver) When my account was plat… the increase in SR made the games very difficult for them and we often would lose. I would then play solo q to gain my SR back. I got to the point where I stopped playing with them for several seasons because I was try harding. It was also the reason why I made my alt to be my pure solo q account just to see where I ranked by myself without my friends… both if they were “carrying me” when I played with my son who is masters/gm or if my friends were holding me down. When I realized I was a diamond player, I stopped playing with them until s11. The Symm changes made me just stop caring… I almost quit the game. But my friends pulled me back because of the changes to their heroes that made them more accepted. So I play with them. Still, when I do for a moment care about my SR or just want to play comp (mostly I enjoy mystery heroes more) I will solo q. Solo Q is sooooooo easy.
I mean, I literally could very well try hard myself back to plat very easily.
I disagree with your assessment. I’ve never been a meta hero player… so the meta shift has nothing to do with things. The Symm changes did, last season, put me on a losing streak while adjusting to her comp changes… and the fact I could no longer hard carry with her anymore in bad team comps. But I adjusted and still finished with a 58% win rate on her.
(67-68-1 season 11 record -all heroes) So, saying I finished 2647 s10… how do you explain a 2268 finish? Then 25-28-1 Starting at 2234 (after a 6-5 placements because of a dc) to then be 2095. So, meta shift made me lose 552 Sr for going 92-96-2 ??? That is a -4 +/- game record over almost 200 games. 500 sr for a meta shift when I’m winning consistantly about half my games?
I mean, in a small sample size you can see moderate differences in win/loss because of the matchmaker. But with this large of a sample size… and comparing it to others’ win rates… I don’t see how you can claim meta shift made my SR drop that much if the system was fair.
I honestly don’t care what rank I am tbh. The game got rid of my fav hero to play, so now I only really play to have something to do with my friends. Other people do and I want to point out how aweful the system is with my own testimony. I’ve already proven to myself how good I am. I will never be GM, nor do I want to deal with the toxic self entitled people there. I do however want a SR system that is fair and accurately reflects the nuances to the TEAM game that this is. If anyone goes .500 over a large enough sampling of games, they should stay even at their SR. If they win, they should rise. If they lose, they should fall. Any sample size over 50 games should reflect this. Heck, even 10 games should reflect it.
I personally think that mid-plat is where I belong. Thats where I’ve always found myself in most of my seasons. Even though I know I can easily play in diamond as I’ve proven that to myself and still win a majority of my games… and even I could try hard to Masters. But that is only on a select number of heroes. I enjoy being able to contribute in a number of roles to fill that I only play at a high gold-plat level. Watching my son play in masters and seeing the level of toxicity there for playing even TRACER… why would I want to get all sweaty to push myseld up there with non-meta when I have no desire or ability to be pro?
-4 after 50 games and I don’t consistantly win? This isn’t like my friend who is 23-40. Who by the way started 7-2-1 in s12 placements (playing with a low silver player) and placed 2318 - finished s11 2190. Now 1877. So he is 16-38 (-22 +/-) and down 441 sr… so he is avg -20 for a loss… compared to me… at -34 for a loss… and I am historically 500sr above at my usual SR… where as he is only 200 off his usual SR (around 2100) and has never been higher then 2600 on any of his multiple accounts he has.
So mind you, I’ve played a lot of those games with my friend. So, if you look at his drop, compared to mine… and the difference being how many games I actually win solo q’n and not having to try to carry him… I do win a lot.
I don’t expect to be at my after placement SR with a losing record. But I do expect at being -4 to be around 100 or less (because of bell curve math and my hidden MMR should be resisting me from falling).
If I have a losing record, I should be dropping currently… the problem is… with all the stuff they’ve stated… there should be NO REASON i should be dropping this fast, not with 800/1000 of my games playing in low-mid plat. Especially considering I kept a WINNING RECORD in mid plat in previous seasons.
How do you justify ranks if me as a player can maintain a winning record on an alt account in diamond. A winning record in plat (but no SR gain). And then finally a 50% win rate in gold and dropping SR? If I continued at this rate… I will be silver by the end of the season while maintaining a near .500 record.
Alright I figured it out. It’s probably a combination of the following:
Those who have low overall winrates yet climbed higher go through periods of improvement where winrates are 60+%. These often don’t last too long. Then they go through stagnation periods where they win about 50% of games which last a lot longer than the improvement periods, thus pulling the winrate down back toward 50%.
The people who have climbed higher probably have a better winrate in the games where the system gives the enemy team the advantage, granting higher SR for a win.
Those who have climbed higher have better performance meaning they gained more and lost less in the metal ranks, so they climbed even with a 50% winrate. And since performance affects placements at all ranks, it means they tended to place higher than they left off even if they went 5-5.
yes, that along with the over all player base getting better and/or their heroes getting better due to balance changes.
Think of if like needing to move water from point A to point B and you have a bucket. Even if your bucket doesn’t change if I now have a bigger bucket, my impact is going to be greater than your impact.
and I don’t buy into the legacy issues of SR, at all.
Any impact level player at +2 tiers higher would have massive impact in lower SR games. What does happen is a role player for lack of a better term who can sort of hang at a higher SR with out being a liability will end up doing the same thing in a lower SR too in a lot of cases.
So not really bad enough to dump SR at say high plat but also not really pushing enough impact to rocket out of gold. This is mostly due to the simple fact that until you get really high in SR the skill difference isn’t that highly compressed. 2.2k vs 2.6k isn’t the same as 4.2k vs 4.4k.
Almost every single player with multi-accounts with one high, one low have totally different play styles and/or amount of time played between the account. Plus as I have said before a bunch a times, VOD reviews just totally destroy the idea of playing like 3k in gold or like GM in diamond etc.
In 902 games I’m 452-425-24. My first season I placed I think in low gold and now I’m at 2800. I’ve been in diamond for a few seasons but the last two I’ve been in plat. If we just look at the record you can make the case that I should be in diamond but currently I know I’m not a diamond player based on games I’ve played against high diamond/masters players. they destroy me even on my best heroes. So pbsr, as much as I hate it, does seem work to some extent.
Lol and if a bunch of people were getting “better” then me, I wouldn’t be able to win in games against those same people. I would be like my friend who consistantly loses to the new “better” gold players.
I maintain my win/loss at my current rank. That is all I’m asking for… I’m not saying I should be gaining rank with a .500 record. I should be staying even… and if I have a winning record I should climb.
There should be no instance that on the low end of the bell curve someone should have to maintain a winning record to stay at their current rank. If anything, the low end of the bell curve should naturally be pushing players up to the avg rank.
Someone under the middle rank (which is 2400-2500 I think) the sr gains and losses actually works in reverse to how it works at GM where you naturally get less SR for a win then you do a loss. You have to be especially bad to drop to bronze and silver. Just like you have to be especially good to get up to GM (as compared to the avg player.
Additionally, you are wrong when it comes to someone a couple ranks below to hold their own at a higher rank.
I have played with a low silver player… so that our group SR is 500 above his rank. He is such a detriment to the team that the team cannot carry him.
You could get a gold player to play in plat and hold their own because the bell curve is the widest in gold and plat. 500 SR in that area doesn’t mean much.
However, you put a gold in a diamond game… let alone high diamond… thy WILL be a detriment to their team to the point that it will be almost worst then going 5v6 because they will just be feeding ult charge to the enemy.
So to say that I belong in low gold, but can solo q in high diamond… it just wont happen. I am at worst a mid-plat player if I can “hold my own” in solo q diamond on my best heroes. Also, a gold could not go 9-2 (my latest record on my alt) solo q in high diamond. That is over the 1000Sr threshold Bliz places on the ability to even group up (so that group games can’t be any higher then 2900 (3100x5+2100) for someone that is 2100 rank. In fact, according to Bliz, the lowest rank one could be to play at 3400 and have a chance of winning or not being a hinderance would be 2800Sr (3500x5+2800)
To say otherwise proves my point that the ranks mean absolutely nothing if a gold can play and “hold their own” in high diamond.
it just means you’re not a high impact player and/or not playing a hero in the lower SR range that can have huge impact. It’s not a slam on your rank but odds are if you posted both accounts we could see the stat issues that are leading to being low gold on one but mid 3k on another…
average support play is enough to win games in 3k. The lack of good key ULT econ will not fully cripple a 3k team. It will prevent that same player from winning in gold.
and again, I’m not directly saying that’s you or your play style. I’m just saying in general. An impact player at 3k isn’t going to get stuck in low gold, period. Either that player’s hero pool is too shallow, the FPS fundamentals are lacking or their ULT econ has issues etc. I don’t know what it might be, but it’s there.
You know what is funny… my stats are actually quite worst in diamond then on this account. Yet, I win.
That is why looking at stats won’t really help determine what is causing me to drop in gold. Stats don’t reflect the impact plays necessary to winning games. It is what I’ve been saying this entire time.
If I am dropping so quickly because I am not stat padding… that is a serious problem with the game’s SR system.
They have claimed in the past that pbsr does not drastically affect SR gains and is actually stronger on new accounts.
I’m over level 550. I have over 1000 games in comp. Pbsr should not be handing me and average -10sr a loss as a smurf prevention… if anything it should be resisting me from dropping and ruining low tier games because my account history has me in plat.
Again, I have thought long and hard and done a lot of research and reading many topics on the manner. I’ve crossed off all the common “theories” as to why my SR behaves the way it does…
The only thing I can think of is that Symm’s MMR stat ratings compared to win rates is still REALLY off… as in just plain wrong… or that the game is penalizing me for grouping up with my low level friends and trying to pull me down to them.
If the later is true, that is VERY detrimental to the very idea of skill rating. Then it matters who you group up with and penalizes those who group with people below their SR on a permanent basis.
It might be, as that hero has warped stats from being picked when a team is going for a full hold either early or late. So the player on SYM for just the start of end of a stage (longer hold) gets much higher stats per 10min than a player on the hero all round.
It’s really tough to know what is going on at all in game as Blizzard has really been tight lipped with any sort of real info. We don’t even know for sure how placements work.