The Genji situation is due to part caused by people who put their own emotions over objective data. Always repeatedly called him trash while he was objectively an average performing hero. The devs even commented on that, but only got made fun of by the Genji fangirls.
“Dont the devs play their own game?”
As an answer to provided objective data makes you look willfullingly ignorant. Your games are anecdotal but not necessarily representitive for everyone. Even if your gameplay experience might differ, looking at the bigger picture, the players you encounter on these heroes simply might not represent the average performance of that hero.
The devs arent the clowns for trying to make an objective evaluation of a hero, you are for asking them to ignore the data and just listen to the mob who perfers their Echo chamber which has nothing to do with reality. For the same reasons heroes like Sombra and Symm which are actually bad unlike Genji pre buff are kept bad or are getting nerfed as soon as they dare to approach the light of the day. Because there is a community sense of entitlement that if you dont like to play against a certain hero that hero “deserves” to be bad.
You guys are whats fundamentally wrong with the game and why its impossible to balance.
EXCEPT for blade. Blade made him a decent pick, because it’s a fight-winning ult even without nano if you use it properly. What I was saying for a while, to keep him good and fix him:
Nerf blade in a couple ways, whether that be the duration, the speedboost, etc.
Buff EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF HIS KIT
Clearly they liked the 2nd option, and I guess they forgot to read the first.
That never changed since release. Genji was like that since 2016. He wasnt trash, people just didnt like that they couldnt easily carry anymore without using blade. Again there comes the sense of entitlement, not need for balance.
If this was basically any other hero than Genji, then this would have been stamped on last week.
Even the likes of McCree and Hanzo had commentary and relatively quick interventions when they got out of hand. The silence here is deafening.
It’s been clear basically since 2-2-2 dropped that balance has gone out of the window for favouritism, otherwise certain Tank and Ana wouldn’t have just been ignored.
The data being objective does not mean they are a good measurement of how strong a hero is.
They objectively display what heroes people with public profiles like to pick, but why people pick a hero is still very subjective, and can be based on people just thinking a hero is fun, or because they think the hero is strong.
If Blade Bot is the term to describe old Genji, clearly he needed to be buffed in his base kit to be more useful.
Granted, I would like to see changes to Dragon Blade and Deflect, mainly Deflect.
As for Symm and Sombra, the thing is with those heroes, I find I don’t have try nearly as hard as I do with Genji or Ashe to be useful. I think there’s a clear difference here in what feels ok to play as and against.
But, I don’t think the way they’ve chosen to balance Symm or Sombra is the right way either. Make them rewarding but up the risk and skill needed to do so, or revamp them both.
Symmetra for example I’d love to see her be fully engrossed in the builder role, with the ability to create different machines with different uses. Like a Generator for health, the good old Teleporter, the turrets and health packs that cost her resource as well but are quickly deployed. I would gladly give her damage orbs for all of that. Sombra…idk, honestly the Spy was just a better stealth class, period.
Because hack isn’t terribly fun to fight against, though the only nerf I’d ever want to see is if I kill the Sombra that hacked me, it should remove the effect. That’s it.
This. People need to understand that their personal opinions about the health of the game or the skillfulness of the game are completely irrelevant to balance discussion
The problem is that many people arent interested in balance. They are interested in favoritism for their main hero and heroes they perceive to be skillful and fun to play against.
Heroes they dont like ending up balanced feels unfair to them.
But as players we really don’t have much else to go on, at the end of the day everyone here is playing a different game. Some play casually, some play comp all the time. Some play in Bronze to Silver, Gold to Plat, etc
Only thing I can say is this, looking at the data alone isn’t going to tell us much. Being in Data Research for Real Estate and Apartments for 5 years will teach you the data just is what it is, it doesn’t tell you the why or how, you gotta figure that out on your own. When a heroes win rates and pick rates are good, I’d consider that hero working as intended, look at the other Supports and the Tanks that are actually doing well to see that. When a hero is considered to be high skill and scales up the better you are, again, working as intended.
In my experience, it feels like Genji and Ashe are the only damage heroes that actually do their job well. Maybe they’re a bit too forgiving, but they’re not overspecialized niche heroes like the rest of the damage role.
The data is what it is, but you need to be able to read it correctly. We can agree on this. But people in this community switch their standarts on how they read stats on a whim based on their own feelings. They arent consistent. Hero A and hero B can have the exact same stats also for the same reason, but you get a different judgement from the same player on both heroes dependend on whether he likes the hero or not. The “cool” hero doing good is fine, while the “unfun” hero doing good is not.
Fair enough, but that’s honestly how this community rolls, Ashe could be actually balanced for all intents and purposes, and people would still complain even though she’s fun to play as or against.
Because people just don’t like dying or losing, so they blame the hero that in their mind causes it the most.
I don’t die often to Zarya or Moira, and I don’t lose because of them, but still don’t enjoy dealing with them often because of one key mechanic. Heck for a long time that’s why I didn’t like Genji, I hate Deflect and how it works. I imagine everyone has those kind of experiences, and it’s the sort of stuff that makes playing the game feel more like a chore than a hobby.
But then we’re just going in circles, I think it’s important that we ask how should things be working? And is there a better way we could do x or y? For example, could Deflect be changed in a way where it’s rewarding for Genji, but fair for the person fighting it? Could we make it so Genji can use Deflect in short bursts instead, and more frequently, vs the long 2 second duration where Genji is entirely in control while it’s in play?
That stuff scales up pretty well, since people who aren’t good with Genji will probably mess up Deflect often, and therefore be easier to pick off, while skilled Genjis will get a slight buff, but at the same time, their mistakes will be easier and more rewarding to punish at a high level. So it provides a better feedback to the player that they’re making the right call.
It’s those kind of changes that interest me, simply increasing or reducing raw numbers like damage and clip size don’t unless it serves an actual purpose.
Thats now more of a design discussion rather than a balance discussion. You dont like the interaction with some game mechanics on a fundamental basis regardless of its balance state. Youre basically demanding reworks. I’m only arguing for balance.