no, i disnt miss it, that doesmt make it better tho, to know many other mains will get the short olend of the stick
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Oh no, I absolutely agree with your post 100%. I’m just pointing that out, because I don’t think a lot of the Non-Tank players here actually caught that “little” detail.
Maybe then they’ll care if they realize all their heroes will be reworked too.
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can’t wait to hear sombra mains cries.
And let’s see what happens to reaper
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It’ll be bigger then 2/2/2 for sure. It would be easy to revert 2/2/2 because they barely did much with it before they vanished to work on OW2. 1/2/2 is going to have an incredible amount of changes and Blizzard will not flip it back to 2/2/2 without at least a few years of trying to get it to work. 1/2/2 is a huge investment and no company would just dump money into a fire.
The only way they would mitigate the risk is to have a separate 6v6 client… which would also cost money and Bobby needs that yacht.
Honestly I just feel bad for them. Their silence will only make things worse for everyone.
Yes you do, I’ve repeatedly told you.
Obviously if you remove ambiguity from your reasoning you now lose your best defence against criticism, you can no longer say “that isn’t what I meant”.
Of course everyone who agrees with your sentiment won’t scrutinize your reasoning.
You know perfectly well the problem is your description of the game.
Your VAGUE description of supposed problems and aspects.
I cannot challenge your reasoning of tanks supposedly being less able to “make space” if you can so easily move the goalposts on what “making space” even is.
Oh so you NEVER wanted to give anyone the impression they shouldn’t like 1-2-2?
No, you like to lecture others but won’t take any back.
You could just clarify your reasoning.
You’ve relented and said something concrete and unambiguous about the distinction between off tank and main tank, now say something concrete and unambiguous would what it means for a tank to “create space”.
So far, it feels like the off tanks will fit this model far better than the main tanks, actually. The devs said that much in their AMA, at least.
I think it is too much to say that all tank players will hate these changes (I’m excited!). A lot of players still seem to look at this as a “tanks need to protect their team” thing. Due to that, they expect off tanks will become unusable.
It isn’t what everyone wants to hear but since the devs are redefining what tanking is in this game, brawlers like Zarya could do well in 5v5. Corner peak, get picks, push in. I don’t see teams packing around the tank as often as they do now which means the whole flow of this game will probably change (which is why people say you can’t guess how things will go just yet…).
Every role sounds far more independent now so brawly tanks with fun disruptive abilities will probably thrive vs the overly defensive ones (which is why we don’t see much on Sigma/Orisa changes)
Maybe. But that’s the thing right - the game started with hero identity and soon things became all about role identity. The playerbase created these terms and the devs eventually started to change their game to match that despite trying to actively avoid using these terms themselves.
You can say “off-tank mains will be sad” and you may be right because…those players exist to support a main tank.
Zarya mains won’t necessarily be sad, though. DVA mains either. There’s players who would happily choose to solo tank with those characters as long as it works well. Heck, if you gave Lucio his 1.0 healing range again, I’ll happily solo heal the team because it means I can still play aggressively and not hug the MT.
Players like those heroes and want to use them – the interaction between the two main/off characters is cool but it isn’t “their identity”. It’s like if you made Mercy unable to GA to Pharah while in the air-- people who specifically want to pharmercy will feel bad but so many mercy players don’t base their viability or fun on that combo alone.
Speaking of which, I hope to see more interactions between other roles after this change. Many people hate Pharmercy but I mean, it looks like magic when it works.
Also, the devs do need to do more work to make 5v5 functional (and I hope to see more updates) because as someone who loves Zarya, I will miss having an ally at the front line to take my bubbles and I think that fits her flow well. At the moment, I see Zarya using the double bubbles for herself initially to build charge and saving them for allies when everyone is fighting around the point.
Of course, that is why I suggested ages ago that her right click becomes a cannon/long range beam instead of a mortar… Zarya would function so well as a tank in the middle of the pack rather than on the front lines. The devs however gave that long range niche to Winston, the dive tank. 
Also, on the topic of losing “off-tanking”
I had fun with it but the game could be designed better without it. I want Orisa and Hog to both feel like they are worth picking. I don’t want to be limited to what “my partner” chooses.
If 5v5 dps/supports are less tank dependent and tanks don’t have to combo with other tanks then it sounds like tanks can finally choose whatever they want instead of having to kneel to “the director”.
If I am being countered by someone then the freedom is there for me to change my pick without dismantling whatever the other tank was trying to do. The amount of times where I wanted to swap to a dive instead of beating our heads on “the wall” but felt like I had to submit a notice to my barrier tank before making that call… it’s not fun.
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Could someone frame this and hang it on the wall in Blizzard’s offices or something? Because that’s so perfectly put.
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There have been plenty pros already listed:
- Less clutter and IE clearer objectives for all players. Team interactions will be so much more manageable.
- It will be easier for the supports to distribute healing.
- Damage role will fill in as tank support instead of the heavy reliance on the second tank.
- It will be easier to balance and create tanks without having to worry about being OP in specific tank duos.
- Tanks will be generally better and more interesting as standalone heroes vs. feeling like a companion piece.
And these are the things that we know already or can imply with simple logic.
Do I have my concerns? Of course, there’s a wild west feeling of how drastic they’re changing things up and not just the tank class and 1-2-2 format. I want to make sure that tanks aren’t so valuable that whoever loses theirs first automatically loses the team battle. I’m also a little weary of how different some of the other hero designs are going to be. I want the Overwatch essence to still be there, but from the last presentation and AMA, it sounds like that is high on the developers’ priorities. So all in all I have high hopes if they execute on all their initial promises.
Completely according to you, a change that would be very good if what you want to do is to reduce the search times for the DPS is quite simple to do, and does not require reworks or anything like that, it is basically to divide them into 2 groups, more or less as they were at the beginning with the Defense and Attack heroes, what I propose is to divide the DPS according to their damage range, let me explain, Group A, long-range DPS like Soldier, Widow, Hanzo, Bastion , and Group B those that are more effective in short medium distances such as Genji, Sombra, Mei, Reaper … It is not very difficult to understand, and it is quite easy to do in my opinion, in each game that there is a DPS of each type, and that the Qualifiers are unified, and you do not have to do 10 games between the 2 groups. Tanks and Healers would not have to undergo changes, except for the usual hero banlances, and I believe that the search times would be reduced for DPS with the change that I propose. But hey, in the end we are simply users, and the only thing we can do is play or not.
It won’t be a very team based game anymore where positioning is huge. That’s my take.
I hardcore disagree, one of the main reasons I don’t enjoy playing tank in many metas is the lack of personal value. I can shoot things for hours with Sigma and they simply just don’t die, the main reason for that is having 2 tanks in a match, the time required to kill someone is much much higher.
The concept of main and off-tanks didn’t even exist in the past, it was created by the community, being a main and off-tank doesn’t define a hero personality or identity, some core abilities and design do. D.Va will continue to have matrix and boosters, Zarya will keep her bubbles, maybe they get a extra ability/passive, but that’s all.
With OW2 we’ll probably have like 10 tank heroes or 11. Unless the game remains unbalanced forever, there will probably be at least 1 of the OG MT’s in the each meta for you to play, simply because they are so different. And remember it’s a different game, so learning new heroes and mechanics is part of it.
In fact it opens up space for more creativity because they won’t have to care about the risk of there having double shield, too much mobility or too much damage absorption going on at once.
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That is the thing I allways say and ppl try to convience me that I’m wrong.
I mean, what statemant Blizzard delivers with that is incredible: We can’t balance 2 tank players that work together as a team, so we decided we rework the entire roster (not only tanks, but a lot of DPS and Supports too) to please some DPS elitists.
I mean… if I want a game with less team-coordination, less variety in combos and heroes, I go and Play Apex Legends, what has shorter Q-times and a better matchmaker (at least as far Ii can tell in my 100+hours of playing it). I mean it is fair. Overwatch evolves around combos, I mean… Tank Combos are a problem? Strange, so things like Pharmercy or Double Sniper are completly fine? Because these heroes also work extremly well together.
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This helps with nothing, queue times are high because about 85% of the population doesn’t play tank and they are 33,3% of the team. Having different dps slots will just increase queues even further because the majority wants to play long range hitscan.
oh… btw I would not reply ever to that specific user, you only get drama and the same discussion over and over again.
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at this point i feel like most people here are just repeating what they’ve read on the forums without thinking because to hell with having actual opinions.
I see so many posts that word the exact same things in the same way.
Plus, tanks are seen as expendable, just look how many people are happy that an entire role is being erased, thinking that somehow is a change we should be glad for. I got accused for “not knowing enough to judge” that then i was told that tanks will defnetely be more fun by people that don’t even know what tanks do.
After today i’ve lost any hope in these forums and any hope that people are even aware of what goes on. I mean, people still believe overwatch 2 is a sequel because it has a 2 in the title, so that should tell you quite a lot already.
Sigh, i shoild’ve never tristed blizzard again. I think i’ll go back at playing paladins, at least that game knows how to make tanking fun and it’s not a dried husk in desperate need for content
oh, i noticed
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This isn’t intended to fix just that issue, if that was the case they would just go 1-3-2. We tanks are about 15% of the community, they want to release a new game to compete with the classic shooters and attract as many new players as possible, tanks increase the TTK and decrease individual value, all that while making queue times much higher for DPS, that are about 60% of the playerbase.
They are going to displease a few of the tank players, but even if that number is 25-30%, it’ll still be better from the perspective of the majority.
While I agree with the sentiment, Zarya is incredibly oppressive alone right now (no, I’m not saying she’s OP) and with 2 bubbles for both cooldowns, it removes the skill of baiting out abilities etc, because you have such a big safety net. She will be fine.
Hog, on the other hand…then again, he’s just fine in a deathmatch style game and let’s be real, that’s what the devs are aiming for. It won’t be Overwatch anymore if they continue in the direction they’re going.
And in the face of good, well-substantiated points you are choosing to hold onto your position like it’s life or death. I think more people are tentatively optimistic than you are giving credit for. IE we aren’t 100% on board (or certain that it’ll work), but also are not insisting that it MUST be terrible - simply because OW2 is still a giant work in progress that you’re not allowing room for it to be.
With my last response I posted my concerns, but am trying to be reasonable from the point of view that Blizzard wouldn’t be doing this if they believed it would be poorly received upon completion. They 100% anticipated the backlash it would get during its announcement, but in spite of that are STILL confident that it’s going to work. That decision-making, coupled with the commitment to make the new format not only function, but be an improvement over 2-2-2 (some of which I listed in my last response), is what I think most people in favor of the changes are rallying behind.
I’m not saying people can’t have opinions. It’s redundant to keep mentioning it if that’s been made clear.
All I’m saying is the core game will be 5v5. If anyone thinks there’s a chance upon release it’ll be 6v6 they need to pay more attention to what is being said and how the devs are updating us.
And again, I’d prefer we stick with 6v6 currently. But it’s not happening.