You are making things up dude. p2w is anything that involves paying money to gain instant access to mechanics that aren’t available to others.
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No, no I am not. But I am old enough to remember when pay to win first became a thing and it hasn’t changed.
What has changed is that a bunch of whiny brats started using terms that didn’t apply to things they didn’t like, and apparently that caught on and weakened to term and what it meant.
You can literally look up the definition of pay to win, and you’ll find that I’m right.
https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/pay-to-win#:~:text=%E2%80%8Bnoun%20uncountable,very%20big%20advantage%20over%20others
In online gaming, the practice of buying in-game items that give a player a very big advantage over others.
If there is no advantage over others, then there is no pay to win element, and Kiriko provides no in-game advantage over any other player/support. She can be outperformed, she can be countered and she can be earned for free.
Now if she was an unstoppable overpowered goddess of a character like many people claim Sojourn to be (even though she’s also easily countered and killable and they probably just suck) and you could only obtain her through a store purchase, then OW2 would be pay to win. But not before that.
But really what can I expect from someone who believes that competitive only matters until they place in a ranking category and then that’s all they need to do. You wouldn’t know what pay to win is if it slapped you in the face with a 200 pound tuna.
I mean, I would say having kiriko is an advantage, definitely. Maybe not a big one, but the ability to switch to a character that you may need during a certain circumstance, sure, that’s an advantage.
And while, right now there is only ONE character, in the future there will be many more that you will need to either unlock (somehow), or pay for. It will snowball. While, maytbe not having one character isn’t a huge disadvantage, not having 20 would be.
On the other hand, it’s not as p2w as some others games. Diablo immortal for instance, where you literally can’t kill someone if they’ve paid more money than you, lol.
And yeah, I’ll agree that the term has changed. Now it’s more like, “just how p2w is it?”
Of course, if they had left characters out of the battle pass, no one would call this even slightly p2w.
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Thats not how refunds work, please read the TOS.
There is no advantage that Kiriko provides that cannot be provided by another character. In fact, most supports outperform her or provide far superior healing/damage potential. There’s literally no one who is going to tell a support player: “Swap to Kiriko.” because she doesn’t provide anything that a team needs compared to other support heroes.
Now if it was Lucio, Zenyatta, Mercy or Baptiste that we were talking about, that would be different, because all four of those support heroes have tools that can literally save teams, where as Kiriko really just… can’t.
Thats absolutely not what Pay2Win is. Pay2Win is a system where you pay for something that gives you a buff in the game, which players that didn’t pay for don’t have access to.
An example of Pay2Win would be if you payed for stuff that would give you a 30% boost to dmg when playing a match.
Everything in OW2 is available to you, except cosmetics. That’s basically it. Unlocking a hero by leveling or paying for him earlier is not an example of Pay2Win.
It would be if the character was way better than every other character in the game with simple passive buffs etc., but thats not true. You still need skillz to play her - it’s not like Kiriko is ever an insta-win when you have her on your team.
Your arguing over definitions that have clearly been defined ages ago - you just need to read on it. Similarly ppl started throwing the term “whale” around and use it in reference to ppl that bought a single skin in the Shop. That’s not whaleing.
Okay, well. that’s one character. You think every character from here on out is going to be released underpowered? I doubt it.
And again, not having 20 characters down the line, it WILL be a disadvantage. There’s no way to argue that it wouldn’t be.
If you have an advantage by having a character early, how is that not pay to win? If I had release brigitte before other people did, you wouldn’t have said that I’m paying to win? Even though I have an extremely OP character that you don’t have? Because I paid?
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Sure it’s one character, but we don’t know how characters will be unlocked post-season yet. Supposedly it’s going to be through challenges, so if you don’t unlock Kiriko this season, you’ll be able to do some basic challenges and unlock her that way.
And if they do unlock heroes that way moving forward, then really the only excuse for not having new heroes is that folks are lazy, and honestly lazy players are folks that everyone should disregard.
I’m waiting for the day a year or two from now where Blizzard games are called “Microsoft junk”
On that day I will chuckle a little
Well, yeah. We will see if they do that. If it’s just a set of challenges to complete to unlock each of the 20 characters, that’d be pretty good for the players.
But, we will see if they do that, as that doesn’t provide much incentive to purchase them.
Uh, Google Stadia would like a word with you. Just got my refund email.
I wouldn’t.
Because wheter you win is based on your skill and not on the hero itself. OW2 requires skill and good players on your team to win, it requires the ability to play different heroes in crtical situations.
I can pretty much counter Brig in many ways, depending on the role I fill. She’s not OP, some would even argue she is underperforming. And before we give more examples - there is no hero currently in the game who put in Kirikos place would change my mind about this.
Bottom line is - this depends on the players skill on both teams, which is subjective.
A Pay2Win method would require you to obtain something that is objectively better than most other stuff in the game. Pay2Win is mostly reserved for MMO’s where you buy high-ranking loot items, that give you buffs beyond anything available for free.
In a Hero Shooter you still need to be able to shoot. If you would have a DPS with absurdly high dmg, low aim requirements/insta-lock and additional HP/Shield and you could only unlock him by paying - that would be P2W.
If Kiriko was Pay2Win you would need to prove that a truly unskilled player suddenly gets a lot better when getting access to this hero or he gets actual advantage over other players that nothing else would give you.
As a side note I got Kiriko from Watchpoint Pack but i would unlock her as fast as 1,5-2 weeks of gaming. By now anyone who ever wanted her should have Kiriko unlocked 3 times over…
To explain even more: Typically in Pay2Win games bad players buy with real money some extra stuff to quickly rise to the top in the ranks of a given game. In OW, no matter how much you are willing to throw money at this game, a noob is still a noob.
(You don’t expect Kiriko mains to be the OW2 pro players sitting in GM ranks simply because they had 2 weeks access to her while others didn’t?)
Therefore this game does not satisfy the requirements of a Pay2Win game.
Except, in this case, they are available to others. Granted, not instantly, but still available, thus not pay to win.
I don’t like Blizzard putting heroes in the Battle Pass any more than the next person, but it’s still not pay to win because you can get them for free.
It is when you keep getting players who doesn’t have unlocked a hero and you have to fight people who have paid to have access to it.
This is a very flawed notion. Your basically saying that when I’m playing Tank I should worry if my team does not have Kiriko and the other one has, because this is clearly advantageous to them. Does this fact make it more probable they will win now?
Again, you need to have an objective advantage over the other team with the thing you buy, not just get something faster.
In this case you ignore player skill (which make or break this game) or that clearly Kiriko stats are nowhere near anything really game changing.
Also to add to what I already wrote about P2W above:
Pay2Win is a 2-way street. It’s a system that not only makes bad players better, but good players worse. In cases of games that changed their method to P2W during their lifespan, many players who were initially good and played the game for a long time, started frequently loosing to brand new players, simply because they had some statwise objective upgrade that they bought and it made them superior without the necessary skills to back it up.
In Overwatch nothing as such ever takes place. No one is complaining they lost a game because the new Support is OP and they didn’t have access to her yet or nothing could counter her.
That’s not pay to win, because a) the new heroes are still obtainable for free and b) the new heroes are still locked for 2 weeks from being played in Competitive (which gives players time to unlock them).
Not everyone will have time to unlock them. Some people have work commitments.
Also not everyone even plays competitive as their main mode.
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Oh, I didn’t realize stadia was a video game.
So, if my character is more powerful than yours, you wouldn’t call that an advantage, because my skill level is lower than yours? Um, oooookkkaaayy.
If my skill level is the same as yours, and I have an OP character, I will win. You don’t understand that?
I said release brig. And, maybe you weren’t around for that, but there was pretty much a 99% consensus that brig was overpowered on release.
Like brigitte on release, lol.
I am fairly sure that other characters will be released overpowered. To think that it won’t happen, is pretty ignorant.
This is what happened with brig players. Then, when they nerfed brig, ranks were all messed up, because all these players had risen that weren’t good at the game.
I guess you’ve just never played a game that has released an overpowered character (which will almost certainly happen with ow2). To put these characters behind a paywall, makes it absolutely p2w.
As you’ve already been told. There’s no ‘advantage’ that playing Kiriko gives you that other heroes don’t already have. She isn’t even the best support in the game. That’s Lucio, followed by Baptiste.
She’s easily outperformed by other supports, she provides no counters that can’t be provided by other free heroes. Even her ult is marginal compared to other supports who have far better ones, such as Zenyatta or Moira.
It’s a service, and OW is touted as a live service game.