OW2 is like a restaurant (6v6 vs 5v5 solved)

General Discussion
1

If you aren't keen on metaphors, skip to text below 4 lines.

OW: *3 restaurant for 5+ years, known for doing spins on their popular recipe

OW: Stops giving various recipes for a year straight offering same menu, which wasn’t for everyone.

customers: Slowly leave

OW2: Oh I know, let me make completely different recipe, that’s probably the issue, and not the fact that I’ve served the same one for over a year.

(new and old) customers: Turn up, but their stay is shortlived and most stop coming, due to not really liking the new recipe

OW2: “Bunch of customers returned, and then most turned away, but they bought the meals, so I see it as an absolute win, let me keep doing this new recipe instead of revamping the old one like I used to when I was popular” “I am so smart, let me increase the prices while I’m at it”

6v6 or 5v5, each to their own, one player will like it, other not so much, other will completely dislike the layout,

so what’s the issue if it’s just a personal preference?

the first issue is that many players “grew up” with 6v6 and it’s aspects, and just because it’s a same game, it’s not the “same game”.

the other issue there was no issue with 6v6, it’s the absence of balance changes in a PvP game was the issue,

to clarify this issue many of you neglect, forget or don’t understand:

Imagine the absolutely worst thing you don’t like about current/previous patch of OW2, may it involve Sombra, Orisa, Cassidy, or any character/balance state,

now imagine this state of balance is just left like that, for a whole year, 12 months, 365 days, and more

would you enjoy this game? play it every day? invest many hours? while simultaneously not receiving any new content? imagine Battlepass didn’t swap, imagine it would be stuck on same Battlepass, (new Hero aswell, no new hero for a year+)

that’s what the game was before OW2 (in that last time period), that’s why any change will be praised no matter how good or bad it may be, because it’s different, but just because it’s different, doesn’t mean it’s perfect, or overall better than it was previously,

that’s the issue.

And that’s the reason many want 6v6. That’s the reason many believe and understand 6v6 wasn’t the problem.

Like it or not 6v6 is just as viable as 5v5, if not more, you don’t know if 5v5 is more viable, you don’t, because if you did, your only argument wouldn’t be queue times and double shield.

7 Likes
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It’s not and queue times is really the only argument needed (also it was less double shield and more losing in spawn because your tanks didn’t fit). The fact that 20+ minute wait times is unacceptable for any game is the only argument needed. That fact that the wait to play should not be so long that you need a separate “queue game” is the only argument needed.

Basically until someone figures out an actual solution to the queue time issue, the rest of the arguments for or against 6v6 do not matter.

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Beyond queue times and double shield, tank synergy and tank anti-synergy were also massive issues that only existed in 6v6, not 5v5 (because there’s only 1 tank now)

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There’s a queue time issue? I never wait more than 5mins. High ELOs I guess

Maybe if the matchmaking wasn’t awful across the board some players could move up lol then the queue times would be better no?

Are the games you wait for worth it? Or are they stomps like every games in metal ranks?

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Not really anymore, but in OW1 there was. After role queue was implemented DPS queues in quickplay were 8+ minutes on a regular basis, in competitive it could be even worse

I wait a lot less now in OW2, but in OW1 no the wait wasn’t worth it. Waiting 8 minutes for a DPS game just for your tanks to play Ball/Hog and do their own thing was not fun. Playing tank with instant queues wasn’t even worth it which is why DPS queues were so long (but people still preferred to wait because tanking sucked)

1 Like
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for people like you, sure

no

no

but it’s literally in the OP

cause they don’t exist

no, tank synergy was fine

wrong

which is why you didn’t understand what tank synergy even is, and why it wasn’t even an issue, because as a DPS main, you unsurprisingly have the least grasp of what’s good or bad for the game and what it used to be

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Yeah it was absurd. I love how people conveniently forget that and also don’t realise that any, literally ANY issue that happens in 5v5 will still be present in 6v6 and made worse.

The only thing would be … again, as always, if you prefer the game to be slower and more forgiving, which is fine , but this all montage and fantasy analogy is kinda weird.

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The only mention of queue times in the OP is bringing it up as an argument people make against 6v6. You’d need to have way more tank players than there were in OW1 and you didn’t propose any way to make that happen.

2 Likes
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nope, name one

speaking of weird

you just said it yourself, try using a bit more than 2 braincells maybe you’ll figure it out yourself

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Saying “there’d need to be more tank players” is not providing a way to get more tank players.

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if hundreds of thousands of players stop playing the game, what happens to the least popular role?

ever heared of exponential increase?

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Presumably, it would decrease in proportion to its popularity. You seem to be implying that a larger playerbase would help queue times, and it would to some extent, but the ratio of DPS players to tank players is still important.

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no it’s not, Q times were actually good in OW, but nobody will admit it, nobody will bring it up and some might even deny it and start yapping or change the subject to some other meaningless issue

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For the wait times its safe to the say it was a problem for the overwhelming majority given how constant the complaints were in and out of game. Queue time simulator was one of the jokes about OW in the mainstream gaming sector and was the reason it was tough to get anyone to be willing to play it. Yes double shield was unfun, yes the game was a visual mess with, yes the tank synergy deciding games in spawn was problematic to put it kindly (and similar problems were what gave us RQ in the first place), yes the gameplay was overly deathbally as a result of 6v6, and it is the only major game that was 6v6 causing problems in the East, and while all of that is true for the majority the biggest problem was a game that you spent longer waiting for than playing. Maybe you do not mind spending over half your time waiting for a game but the majority did not like that.

From a tank main tank synergy deciding games in spawn is a problem because it makes the wait that everyone else went through a waste of time. I can confidently say that I understand tank synergy (sometimes too well) and it being the decider of games at times was horrible. When you recognized that the opponents were 2 Off Tank players, it kind of made the wait feel like a waste because the game was free. They could try but you knew you won and the experience was not good because the game was free.

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I’ll take the Chicken, side of veggies and mashed potatoes.

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“constant”

wonder why the millions of players still played the old game, would it be that the game itself was good? nooo, that wouldn’t be it

also the Q times were fine

:cry:

huh?

eeeeh, nah, you played more than you waited

were you T500?

what gamemode?

there’s ketcup foundation, the plate is cheap paper plate that slowly dissolves and the price is 99.9$

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To be fair Double Shield isn’t even really an argument. People bring it up as this big “Gotcha!” when it is really anything but that. Double Shield is and was easily fixable in 6v6. It was just never done back in OW1 - the heroes that needed reworking and sorting out were never addressed properly. The game was abandoned for Overwatch “2” and they just left it as it was.

The only real argument for 5v5 is queue times. That’s it.

2 Likes
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not even real, the Q times were fine until the playerbase declined,

with same logic, they’d remove tanks completely if DPS had 10 min Q in 5v5 and make it 4v4

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Mind if I join you?

Can we get some dessert as well?

(On topic, back in the days when I played comp at gold, I only ever had to wait <5m unless I was in a stack. But it was likely my role ((not tank))

I thought tank was fun until CC got too involved. But they could’ve balanced everything by removing CC from other heroes, like they attempted to in early OW2.

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No, tank synergy and anti-synergy was not fine

No, I’m right

  1. I’m not a DPS main
  2. I know what tank synergy is
  3. Tank synergy and anti-synergy was an issue
  4. you don’t have the least grasp of what’s good or bad for the game