I’m sorry, why? lol.
Yeah…we know.
Let’s not.
Who is saying this isn’t FPS? It’s literally from a first person perspective.
Who is confused???
What is the point of this thread???
Even if it was identified as a MOBA. WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD?? lol
Here I’ll post the same reply I’ve posted to three other people that have asked the same question…
The point is the quicker people get educated and realize what kind of game OW is and what kind of game Blizzard themselves designed and want OW to be like, the quicker we purged these forums from horrible ideas and tweak suggestions that are spewed out daily.
Meaning people constantly make threads about how to tweak the game or to nerf/buff heroes according to them thinking Overwatch is a Moba and not an FPS.
So all their suggestions have to do with making the game less of an FPS with complaining about damage all the time and not liking to die, and whatever else.
Suggestions that are trying to slow down the gameplay, increase the time to kill even more, to not lose or increase their precious barriers, suggesting even more healing, etc. People that liked goats, double barrier, playing the game by standing behind barriers and slowly walking forward.
Blizzard themselves have said that they want to get away from all of that as much as possible for Overwatch 2.
Yet certain people don’t get the point and are still making their bad suggestions for the game, that go against what Blizzard is striving for.
And sometimes blizzard gives into these bad ideas because of the constant whining.
That is the main point.
lol does that maybe signify something to you?
The whole point of the forums is to give suggestions on how to make the game better. If that means changing directions because the players want it changed, then so be it.
If the majority of people want the game to be changed, I’m sorry, but the game will be changed. That’s kinda what these forums are here for.
I mean I guess they could stick to “the way we designed it” and lose their entire player base, but that doesn’t seem very smart from a business perspective.
It’s a similar condition in your video. It’s actually more limited for Sym because the McCree already knows where both portals are. Teleporting through portal is also telegraphed. The McCree has room for improvement in this play.
Also, mobility heroes don’t have unlimited amount of mobility like this. Tracer is limited to 3, Genji 1, Sombra 1. You cannot spam mobility like this on those heroes.
But this doesn’t make their aim any easier.
In your video, was it any easier for Sym to 180? Not exactly, the turns were relatively slow and the aim is not exactly on the spot (even factoring leading shots), but m2 has a little bit of extra hitbox which compensated for it. This does not exist for heroes like Tracer and Genji. Tracer is hitscan and shurikens have the smallest hitbox for projectiles.
I rather blizzard not listen to and risk losing a very small minority of whiners on these forums, and instead try to gain back the 30 million players that they lost after the release of heroes like brigg, sigma, etc, and cancer comps like goats and double barrier.
Its evident by countless articles, and interviews, that blizzard knows this and have admitted to their mistakes. And are now trying to steer the game in a better direction.
Why would Blizzard/Activision not care more about making money and instead care about trying to preserve the idea of a one of a kind magical FPS/Moba casual game that certain people wrongfully think OW is.
except for my highlight, mccree doesn’t know when exactly I will tp. sure, max frequency is like once per second, but no reason why I can’t necessarily stay longer as shown by the end when I go to finish him off.
unlike in your clip whereby genji very likely is only going to dash from that 1 entrance to capitalise on flash being down, and will have to dash due to the distance between them.
tracer has 4 including recall, but if you further include the low cd of blinks, it realistically isn’t just 3 blinks per engagement, but in fact more. and for tracer, there’s more unpredictability because blinks can go literally in any horizontal direction enforcing the target to need to take in more cues/information to be able to make an accurate determination of where to turn and how much.
sure it’s not infinite, but it still gives a very significant advantage, esp in light of how short their TTK on others is.
genji isn’t all that hypermobile until he starts chain killing (notably in blade), and sombra simply isn’t hypermobile in comparison.
and again, when we consider bulky hypermobile heroes like df and ball, the proposed solution of “just click heads better 4head” isn’t even necessarily viable to stop them from getting the value they want let alone talking about reasonableness.
it significantly narrowed down which angles he needed to turn, reducing the delay more towards to only being reaction time (i.e. reacting to the cue of dash of which has a 0.3s duration). yes doing huge turns while placing the cursor one someone accurately is hard, but the advantage I’m talking about is the delay in timing i.e. the target has to wait for more info to react to what the hypermobile hero does which puts them inherently behind in the TTK race between them.
in your clip, everything about the genji dash was more telegraphed due to the envirnoment, from when he will likely dash to where the dash will end up, the environment limited all of that making the advantage marginalised and it being more like the old mexican standoffs (i.e. purely about reaction time). actually more advantageous to mccree because he was able to get a shot in before genji dashed too.
but most situations against hypermobile heroes aren’t going to necessarily be in an environment where it boils down to a mexican standoff situation.
e.g. in my clip, look at how much these delays to the less mobile added up and what they got me:
I’d like to point out that in general, mathematically speaking sym’s orb size doesn’t sufficiently compensate for how slow they are
i.e. orbs are physically so slow that when the target isn’t blind to orbs, whether orbs land or not in most ranges is more about whether the target moves out of their trajectory or not rather than “did the sym aim accurately enough”.
what does change all the math above is whether the target notices the orbs too late which is a byproduct caused by me spamming tp interacts.
i.e. to claim “you landed your shots just because orbs are huge” isn’t all that accurate when the tp mobility allowing legit wide angles for the orbs to come from and thus be effectively “hidden” to the target for most of their flight is more of a factor.
they don’t have low firerates (higher firerate is 1 factor to being more consistent to land shots) while their hitboxes are somewhat smaller than most, on top of the advantages in the TTK race their mobility bring to engagements.
That is getting too much into analysis of the clips than the simple point I was trying to make, which is that mobility throws off the aim of the player using it too, despite the player knowing when or where he would end up.
Like I said, knowing you need to do a 180 after you use X ability doesn’t mean you will do a clean 180 for a clean shot.
Knowing is one thing. Doing is another. Everybody can see where the head is, but hitting it is a different matter.
Ow began as strictly casual
and you’re ignoring the very significant and objective fact that regardless of that, the more mobile hero has a significant advantage in that matchup, namely how the mobile hero is inherently ahead in the TTK race in the matchup.
i.e. the hypermobile hero would know beforehand and by the time the target gets a reasonable enough info for them to know (assuming it isn’t like your clip where both timing and end location is narrowed down hard for them), the hypermobile hero’s likely got enough to time to readjust their turn and shoot before the less mobile one does the same, and it stacks up as the hypermobile hero uses more and more mobility —> ahead in killing the less mobile hero before vice versa.
what bridges that gap rn are cc, lenient aim mechanics and sustain. everything which OP and the other guy seeming wants to take out because “fps only” which is hypocritical as they give a free pass to hypermobility.
like if you think hypermobility honestly doesn’t bring much benefit to warrant extra tools to deal with hypermobility, then for evenly skilled players, do you think that a widow is just as likely to be able to deal with a tracer as say a mccree or soldier when only weapon fires can be used for them and tracer can use mobility + weapon fire?
OW began as a good game 
And dps only get more mobile in ow2 hip hip hooray
No I’m not, and now you’re talking about the “match ups.” I acknowledge the advantage of mobile heroes, but that advantage is not really being harder to hit, as that also punishes the aim of the hero using it. The real strength of that mobility is to choose when to fight and better chance of running away from unfavorable fights.
then please explain to me this:
soldier without healing station nor rocket vs tracer starting off say ~15m of each other. assuming the both players have the same level of skill who’s more likely to win?
because I’d say tracer is more likely because of advantages as explained previously.
In a vacuum like that, of course Tracer should win the fight.
In that vacuum.
then obviously the advantage of mobility isn’t simply just “[choosing] when to fight and better chance of running away from unfavorable fights” now is it?
and that’s the point I’m making. like obviously “just aim better” isn’t a reasonable counter solution to hypermobility unlike what the said 2 draconian “fps only” people were saying. but rather, them giving a free pass to hypermobility for having such advantages is the opposite to being good willed in competitiveness and simply isn’t aiming for balance.
No it is, because you presented a scenario where soldier is very disadvantaged, with his strength over trace taken away, which is his range his burst his self heal.
Picking a favorable fight like that is tracer’s strength.
ok would your answer change if he had his rocket but the rocket was a small projectile with no splash? if so why?
like you say soldier is disadvantaged in the former presented scenario but why? he has like 171dps while tracer has 150hp and soldier has 200, and both are in each other’s effective range. i.e. largely numbers wise, tracer’s TTK soldier is ~0.833s and soldier’s TTK tracer is ~0.877s assuming both 100% accuracy, but tracer has spread and soldier has recoil instead, which all is relatively even ground according to aspect which is pretty much what the draconian fps mentality cares about.
if the advantage of mobility is simply just “[choosing] when to fight and better chance of running away from unfavorable fights” as you claim, then evidently you should be insisting that it’d be more or less a fair match up no?
yet you say he’s “very disadvantaged” instead while the largest difference in parameters/characteristics between them is really mobility.
and not to mention, if you agree that a hero without cc, splash/lenient aim mechanics nor extra sustain is inherently disadvantaged when it comes to going against hypermobile heroes, is this not the overall point that I’ve been trying to show?
namely that the application of draconian fps-only view that’d remove the above mechanics from most of the heroes while turning a blind eye to hypermobility is highly hypocritical in basically leaving them without much counterability in the game and thus is being both anti-balance and anti-competitive
You lost me at “Team”
That’s exactly what i was trying to tell Zephrin, hitting primary shirukens with Genji while spamming double jump is not easy. Tracking moving heads while blinking around between 2, 3 enemies is not easy, if you dont have near perfect tracking, a Mercy, Brig or Bap will heal all of it back up in a split second, voiding all Tracer’s effort.
Even in a 1 v 1 duels, single shot heroes like Ashe, McCree, Widow and Hanzo can flick instantly. Just as Tracer builds her tracking/movement muscle memory, so does the enemy build theirs
I mean, if you type “moba games” in google Overwatch is the 4th game that pops up after LoL (1st), Dota2 (2nd) and Valorant (3rd)
Overwatch is in a sense a Multipler-Online-Battle-Arena game, just without an economy, a 3-way splitted map and a bird’s eye view.
However you could argue that ult economy could be seen like a gold economy. It actually even works the same way: Do damage (“Last-Hit”) and u get more ult charge, or “money” in a sense.
I would argue overwatch is a turbo mode of LoL or Dota, only in a ego perspective, with guns and your gold being your ult charge in %