Opaque Matchmaker: Don't legitimate electronic sports need transparency?

When you are playing WC3, or even more traditional shooters like CS:GO each, players can be judged on generally the same criteria since all characters/races are very similar (this also allows W/L to carry more meaningful weight as ranking metric). In OW though, the heroes are very asymmetrical by design so how you judge Rein play vs how you judge Widow play vs how you judge Mercy play are three very different sets of criteria.

It’s sorta like judging NBA players vs judging NFL players. In the NBA stats like field goal %, free throw %, assists, blocked shots, etc., are, to varying degrees, applicable to all players regardless of position. In the NFL though QBs, RBs, receivers, offensive lineman, kickers, corner backs, etc., are all judged on very different criteria because, like in OW, each position has very different responsibilities.

Some things I think could improve the rankings/comp experience:

6-stacks should get their own queue in comp, though you’d probably have to differentiate between LFG 6 stacks (which could be 6 randos) and pre-made 6-stack groups.

Each role should get a different MMR (but that will probably necessitate role locks so someone can’t get match-made in a gold role and the switch to a bronze level role or a diamond level role during a match). Maybe you could switch roles in-game as long as the MMR difference wasn’t too big?

Having guilds could help foster team-focused play so players are less likely to chase individual stats to the detriment of the rest of their team. Maybe there is an XP bonus for playing with guild mates like there is for playing in a group?

BUT the problem with trying to get too specific and creating a lot of subdivisions during match making is you’ll run the risk of longer and longer queue times. Ex. I think Jeff said that in their role queue tests the queue time for DPS players could be as high as 20-30min. They have to weigh finding a ‘close enough’ match in a shorter amount of time verse finding a ‘perfect match’ in a much longer amount of time.

We are talking about how to rank individual players though, not how the playoff system works.

Outside of QB Rank I don’t think the NFL has any official formula to rank individual player performance. And even QBR is limited which is why other companies like ESPN and Football Outsiders have developed their own player ranking methodologies. A lot of it comes down to context which is why relying on software only is so hard. For example, if a pass is intercepted who gets the blame? Is it the QBs fault because he threw a bad pass, or is it the receivers fault for running a bad route or tipping a catchable ball into the air? But Blizz has no choice but to rely on software because it’s not realistic to have humans watch and evaluate every player in every comp game.

How pro scouts grade individual players when it comes time for the draft and for trades is a more apt comparison, IMO. Ex. Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring but by most accounts he’s a ‘meh’ QB that was hard-carried by one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL (which is why he’s the only starting NFL QB to be released from their team after winning a Super Bowl). If you were building a team from scratch I’d rather have a guy like Dan Marino or Warren Moon as QB even though Dilfer has the ultimate symbol of NFL success, a Super Bowl ring, and they don’t.

Can OWL ranking be better? Of course. Do I blame Blizz for trying to create a more comprehensive, if currently flawed, MM? No.

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no team games form teams with a dice roll, it takes a leader and followers

OW needs guilds and a Player Directory (a reverse LFG)

MMR/SR is unorthodox for team games.

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While I think OW’s Matchmaker is the best one Ive ever seen in a game, I agree that the game must have more transparency.

This scheme of AI “judging” wasn’t in WC3, if you won you got full credit for the win, it didn’t try to make team members fight one another over who will get more credit. (As many have pointed out, this is unhealthy. E.g. I often find people aggressively pushing the defense back to their starting location instead of defending the point in order to score more kills, and then this aggressiveness backfires and the point is lost.)

Did you read my reply? I wrote that the current matchmaker IS transparent.

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I feel like I have to repost this again just in this topic alone, because people are ignoring this topic and all the references to Blizzard’s posts on Competitive mode’s matchmaking. (References section at the bottom of the opening post)

Hopefully, people aren’t intentionally ignoring it. Hell, I’d rather people say that Blizzard is straight-up lying and claim that matchmaking is intentionally rigged rather than people ignore the references.

the current matchmaker is NOT transparent

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I think he read your reply and I did too, and what you wrote makes no sense.

You say the system is transparent but there are parts of it which are not. You happen to think that’s better for players, but sorry, that’s not the point. The system isn’t transparent if part of it is hidden, whether you think that’s a good idea or not.

The system is hidden. And that’s not how serious competition works.

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My friend I have a video of this same game developer saying that he purposely create matches where one team will stomp on the other in order to create a feeling of a diverse matchmaker. He is truly saying he rigged matches in order to pretend that the matchmaking is real. I will post it and I wonder if blizzard is to delete it.

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It is not my friend, they cannot make it transparent because it would reveal the mayhem that is going on, they will never reveal it.

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I’m wondering what part of the system you think is hidden?

They have said quite a bit about how it works. I think it starts with ping, then goes to MMR and widens if it takes too long. I’m not sure exactly. I don’t feel like going back and reading about it, but what do you think they are hiding from you?

Yes, how MMR works is hidden to an extent, and for good reason. All we know is that it goes up when you win and down when you lose, but…I’m okay with that.

To the op: chess or tennis players? What does that have to do with video games? And I’ll ask you the same question, what would you like to know about matchmaking that they haven’t told you?

As far as how do I know I’m at the rank I belong at? Because bronze players are worse than silver players are worse than gold etc. It is very apparent if you’ve played through these ranks. With the exception of a few smurf players.

And after reading through some of these posts, your definition of esports doesn’t seem to be correct. What does the matchmaker have to do with esports? (It isn’t used)

As I have already explained, the word “eSport” isn’t the point, the point is about a competitive system for electronic sports, which should work on principles analogous to competitive sports in other realms, both amateur and professional, such as tennis, cycling, and so on.

I have revised the original post to say “electronic sport” rather than “eSport”, since that’s what I meant and since the word “eSport” seems to be problematic.

And I think the word “eSport”, if it isn’t going to function in this general “electronic sport” sense, is probably not a good concept. Traditionally we say “professional sports” if we want to refer to the fact that they earn a living from it, we don’t make up a word that implies that amateurs aren’t also doing the sport.

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He says it in that video I posted. He did it with bots, not with real matches.

Oh so you mean you want a competitive system for VIDEO GAMES that is similar to real sports?

Electronic sports refers to the professional side of video games. Whether you agree with that term or not, that’s what it means.

Electronic sports have leagues. That is their system. Just like real sports do. So maybe they’ve already done it! No need to post.

And if you want a system that is similar to professional sports, then you better become a professional overwatch player. Otherwise you’ll be stuck playing pickup games on the basketball court.

Another willful misreading of my post.

I am curious as to your motivations. Are you a Blizzard employee perchance? Precisely why don’t you want transparency/comprehensibility in the matchmaker? Would it bother you if Blizzard did make a transparent, comprehensible, justifiable system? Or is the only thing bothering you here the fact that someone is disagreeing with Blizzard’s past choice?

Did you even respond to my question of, what more do you want to know about the matchmaker? I’m with that other guy that was responding to you earlier. See ya.

Lots of things. For one, precisely what metrics does it use to compute MMR?

Apparently my questions for you hit a little too close to home?

Read this topic in its entirety. Don’t just skim for the part you’re looking for, read ALL of it:

This is the 3rd time I posted this link in this topic.

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Good point my friend, he has another video that is different where he did it with real matches with Castle Wolfenstein.

Try and find it, but here’s the thing. If they do fiddle with matchmaker to test out somethings, it’s only temporary and normal SR probably returns within a day.