Opaque Matchmaker: Don't legitimate electronic sports need transparency?

He says it in that video I posted. He did it with bots, not with real matches.

Oh so you mean you want a competitive system for VIDEO GAMES that is similar to real sports?

Electronic sports refers to the professional side of video games. Whether you agree with that term or not, that’s what it means.

Electronic sports have leagues. That is their system. Just like real sports do. So maybe they’ve already done it! No need to post.

And if you want a system that is similar to professional sports, then you better become a professional overwatch player. Otherwise you’ll be stuck playing pickup games on the basketball court.

Another willful misreading of my post.

I am curious as to your motivations. Are you a Blizzard employee perchance? Precisely why don’t you want transparency/comprehensibility in the matchmaker? Would it bother you if Blizzard did make a transparent, comprehensible, justifiable system? Or is the only thing bothering you here the fact that someone is disagreeing with Blizzard’s past choice?

Did you even respond to my question of, what more do you want to know about the matchmaker? I’m with that other guy that was responding to you earlier. See ya.

Lots of things. For one, precisely what metrics does it use to compute MMR?

Apparently my questions for you hit a little too close to home?

Read this topic in its entirety. Don’t just skim for the part you’re looking for, read ALL of it:

This is the 3rd time I posted this link in this topic.

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Good point my friend, he has another video that is different where he did it with real matches with Castle Wolfenstein.

Try and find it, but here’s the thing. If they do fiddle with matchmaker to test out somethings, it’s only temporary and normal SR probably returns within a day.

That’s a neat bit of analysis, and it demonstrates the need and desire for the kind of information I’m calling for, but it is patchwork speculation not an official Blizzard statement and it leaves many unanswered questions.

I especially liked this bit:

Blizzard has started to realize that having a motivation other than winning causes all sorts of non-ideal behavior and effects.

You don’t say? :rofl:

Well, better late than never, though I won’t hold my breath waiting for them to implement this stunning realization in their algorithms.

The entire topic is based on statements Blizzard has made on matchmaking. Everything they have ever said is in the References section.

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Did you read it? It’s an interpretation based on contradictory, incomplete, and probably out of date information.

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Yes, the topic is an interpretation. But, how are the statements Blizzard made contradictory, incomplete, and out-of-date? Are you saying that Blizzard is lying?

The burden of evidence is on you, because you’re the one claiming that Blizzard has an opaque matchmaker here.

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Transparency? From blizzard? LMAO

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Uh, no. This is not a legal case.

It’s not transparent, the end.

Now, people can say that’s okay with them, or not, but that’s besides the point.

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You posted this link 3 times and didn’t read it? It says right in there that Blizzard had contradicted itself at one point. It then decided on a “reasonable” (to that author) interpretation given the contradictions.

Clearly it’s incomplete and out-of-date – it’s based on scattered information that was said some time ago, it’s not an up-to-date affirmation from Blizzard on how it works NOW.

And it’s obviously incomplete, per our not knowing the precise metrics by which MMR is calculated.

How is e.g. MMR calculated, exactly? You don’t know. Why don’t you know? Is it because, perchance, Blizzard didn’t tell anyone? Hmmm? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Not to rank shame, but you are extraordinarily low rank. I think you need to learn to kill the things on your screen first before you worry about how your rank is calculated.

For you to be the rank you are, you need to look at yourself and not the system.

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Why do people say “Not to X”, while they then proceed to do exactly X? Is it because they believe that admitting they are being hypocritical upfront somehow magically erases the hypocrisy? Please explain.

My rank has nothing to do with the veracity of my arguments, and your claim otherwise is rank ad hominem. Why do you feel that engaging in illogical arguments is OK?

Your rank is higher than mine, true. And in spite of the opaque matchmaker, I believe you’re the better player (the matchmaker is bad, but not that bad). Which only proves that being fair at playing Overwatch does not translate over into being able to make decent arguments.

My main point here isn’t even that it’s bad, it’s that it’s opaque (again, your average playing ability doesn’t magically mean you’re good at reading). At no point have I indicated that I’m at the wrong rank, other than pointing out that it has wild 500SR swings.

Exactly how is this relevant to the discussion? For you to be as bad as you are at following the logic here, you need to read more and write less.

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I think the “contradictions” you’re referring to are the entire SR/MMR thing Kaawumba explained, where Scott Mercer sometimes uses SR in ways that made it sound like SR was being used in matchmaking.

The decay system is the main evidence that SR is NOT used in matchmaking at all. A GM at SR 4600 that decayed to SR 3000 solely through inactivity decay will immediately play at the exact same ranks he was playing at had he not decayed, even though the public-showing SR is 3000.

The matchmaker has functioned and still functions the same way as it always had, get people around the same MMR as you and in the same region, try its best to figure out how to manage non-solo-queuers (aka, stacks from 2-5, keep in mind the maximum difference allowed between the highest and lowest members), then randomly (yes, RANDOMLY) shuffle players onto two teams. Anyone who claims that Blizzard intentionally gives them “bad teammates” as punishment for winning needs to check their attitudes at the door. (You know who you are, in this topic)

Name a game that straight-up gives you EXACTLY that information. Blizzard has said that MMR works the same way as SR, in that your MMR “goes up” when you win and “goes down” when you lose. You could argue that the “personal performance” bit is a mistake and shouldn’t factor in, but that’s a minor factor in how much your MMR goes up or down after a match. The main focus is doing whatever you can to help your team win.

By the way, the last time they even gave a little hint (i.e, the Mercy mass-rez thing), people abused the hell out of it.

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At this point I don’t know why you’re arguing. You’re straight up admitting that it’s opaque. You have a certain “the ends justifies the means” argument for why it’s opaque, but you don’t disagree that it’s opaque.

If what you’re doing is ripe for abuse when it’s found out then how about, I don’t know, not do that thing. Just a thought…

A decent system that respects players is going to be founded upon transparency and forthrightness. A bad system that abuses players is going to be founded on opacity and being coy and tight-lipped.

You’re asking for what basically amounts to source code. In this case, opacity/transparency is NOT a black/white issue. I’m saying that Blizzard said enough about how matchmaking works without going to source code.

Read those two posts. And no, NO COMPANY is going to be transparent to the point of literally posting source code. It’s up to you to decide if they’ve clarified enough about matchmaking for you.

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