One year of Symmetra 3.0

[Ranulf-1999]

I explained you why Sym cant safely charge her gun on most heroes with barrier without being nuked from afar or close up, how about you aboard my entire argument instead of centering on single lines.

Because you know, what you are doing is actual strawmanning.

Sym’s “gun” as you put it consists of two options. Her primary fire being designed to START with tanks and then used against squishier targets once charged and her secondary being used when option one is not feasible. Her “gun” is useable at all times.

We are speaking about her primary and its ridiculous aiming requirement to her squishiness and inmobility ratio is, the secondary fire was never part of this conversation and that you bring it up after your entire point was that Sym was ok because she could charge her gun if there was a barrier tank just giving you free charge is silly and contradictory.

I love when people point out the number of tanks compared to the rest of the roster as if this makes tanks some rare breed. When all the time we are all fully aware that a team does not have 30 players on it. It has 6. Often meaning that 1/3rd of that team consists of the targets you need for her PRIMARY.

The fact that you think that Sym can even try to charge on Dva, Zarya, Hog or Hamster despite them chunking Sym’s HP extremely easily shows that you completly missed the point. Not only that, but those heroes do not have barriers, which was your whole point.

So no, its not ‘‘1/3rd of the enemy team’’ because more that half the tank roster can kill Symmetra, the most vulnerable close range dps in the game. Remember when Reaper mains complained that Hog was oneshotting them? Now apply that to Sym, but no healing, no wraith, no 250 hp.

[MrTickles-1464]

how about you aboard my entire argument instead of centering on single lines.

The reason I pull single lines is to streamline the argument by dismantling the foundation of your argument. Addressing additional points that directly correlate to something I already dismantled is pointless.

If your other points depend on your first one being correct I only need to dismantle the other. Which I have done.

We are speaking about her primary and its ridiculous aiming requirement

Why can you not hit a tank? Why can you not hit a barrier?

after your entire point was that Sym was ok because she could charge her gun if there was a barrier tank

Nope. Strawmaning again. My point was not if there was a “barrier tank”. My point is if there is a barrier and/or a tank. You can charge her beam on large targets quite easiliy.

So no, its not ‘‘1/3rd of the enemy team’’ because more that half the tank roster can kill Symmetra,

I mean, every hero can kill every hero when outplayed?

I just don’t find most of the tanks that hard to deal with. The only one that gives me any real trouble is Wreckingball but even he can be dealt with using proper turret placement to rob him of momentum.

Your entire premise is that she cannot contend with most of the tanks. This has not been my experience.

The fact that you think that Sym can even try to charge on Dva, Zarya, Hog or Hamster despite them chunking Sym’s HP extremely easily shows that you completly missed the point.

Nope. I do it all the time. Through proper positioning and game sense.

A D.va that dives you has no means of disengaging. If she dives you she is moving (assuming you know your stuff) into YOUR area of influence and that of your team.

Because the reality is that everytime someone tries to claim tanks melt sym they can only make that claim if Sym is some how isolated. Which is just not how sym is played.

Yes, 1/3rd of the enemy team is quite exploitable by sym when you handle her properly. I can’t change your perspective on this if you don’t know how to manipulate her kit and manipulate your opponent into YOUR domain.

Remember when Reaper mains complained that Hog was oneshotting them?

This was pretty far back and mostly due to spread not being as wide as it is now plus the fact that reapers optimal fight range is 5-7m’s. Which makes baiting a hook more difficult due to less time between toss and connect.

Most small silhouette characters still often survive that pull. However, I would argue that if you were hooked as ANY 200hp character you were already in a terrible spot to begin with.

Hook is easily baited by using the geometry of the map. Especially at the ranges you should be playing at with Sym.

[IsTheMedia-1302]

Well maybe if it didn’t self destruct when it felt like it, had a faster deployment, and was actually consistent in WHERE it was deployed- then maybe it wouldn’t be a joke.

[Wanderer-22278]

The self destructing bug was fixed nearly a month ago now, as was the teleporter placement I agree that it would benefit from faster deployment though.

[IsTheMedia-1302]

Uhhhh no it still self destructs if too close to the edge of the map.

And NO you can place TP down 5 times and it will NOT be consistent in where it’s deployed.

[Wanderer-22278]

Funny how I’ve played Symmetra for 20 hours in the past 2 weeks and the teleporter never self destructed (except when a payload ran it over), and it always placed directly in front of me But hey, guess we’re playing a different game.

[Ravenna-21947]

Like the ability to output consistent damage for flankers, survive 1v1 engagements, or protect herself/teammates in any way in a clutch encounter.

Proton barrier I miss you so much.

Yep. It’s almost virtually impossible to 1vs1 with Symmetra at present moment. Unless you are playing against people that can’t aim at all.

[JackisWack-1292]

a extra 2m added to her primaries range

Wasn’t this increased even further afterwards?

[TREB-21513]

How do you guys feel about the not so new Symmetra a year later. Is she still trash? Is she better? Still bitter about the rework?

I think the developers are in a trap with her beam having 3 stages.

If they make the stages short enough to get from 65DPS to 130DPS quickly enough then it goes from 130DPS to 195DPS too quickly.

Rather than having different speeds for different stages basically have it be a 2 stage system, have it be 130DPS for the first 2 seconds then go to 195DPS. Pretty much the only time Symm really gets on a roll is when she is lucky enough to keep her beam at at least level 2.

But it’s too luck-based. If the pace of enemies is wrong, you’re knocked down to 65DPS and then it’s too hard to get it back.

The baseline being 130DPS wouldn’t make her highest potential any higher, it would just save you from bad luck making her garbage.

[TREB-21513]

A buff to nearly half the charge rate, and she is still in the same spectrum. The buff to TP and she is still in the same spectrum. Almost like, she might have just been underpowered.

The problem is you’re having to start at 65DPS.

65DPS is such trash damage for a beam you need to continually track within 12m of your target and can never benefit from headshots.

Moira’s beam is only slightly weaker yet way easier to hit 100% (due to wide beam hitbox) and has such a longer range and she’s a healer with great disengage options.

Contrast with Mei’s beam which does similar trash damage in similar time, but for that gives the HUGE REWARD of 1.5 sec stun. Sym’s trash damage for almost as long gives the reward of… slightly below average DPS, then after that able to deal quite good damage. Interestingly, the two headshots that Mei can easily land on a frozen target is 300 damage in 1.5 sec, which is 200DPS, basically the same as Symm’s max-power-level beam.

How about symm has just a 2 stage beam where it jumps straight from 65DPS to 195DPS, after 1.33 sec of dealing damage? Probably drop back down to 65DPS in less time than 2 seconds. 3x damage boost is the right reward for surviving in a fight dealing such pathetic damage for so long.

[Ravenna-21947]

65DPS is such trash damage for a beam you need to continually track within 12m of your target and can never benefit from headshots.

And have pinpoint accuracy of whooping 65% (something even Geguri doesn’t have) to deal decent damage based on the research done before.

The whole point of having a charge mechanic was she didn’t have to aim. I don’t understand why they kept the charge mechanic now that she has zero survivability and requires serious aim to be actually good.

And don’t get me started on that trash tick-rate LMAO. Worst gun in Overwatch.

[DontFixSym-2253]

I like it. It rewards good players who know how to aim.

[Ravenna-21947]

LMAO. Someone who has good aim and knows how to aim doesn’t play Symmetra.

Not it doesn’t. Widowmaker, McCree, Ashe reward players which know how to aim. Literally every DPS in the game has a better gun than Symmetra. Not to mention better mobility, escape / disengage ability and some sort of survivability.

[DontFixSym-2253]

Well too bad, they should play symmetra. Again, it is useful

[MrTickles-1464]

65DPS is such trash damage for a beam you need to continually track within 12m of your target and can never benefit from headshots.

And have pinpoint accuracy of whooping 65% (something even Geguri doesn’t have) to deal decent damage based on the research done before.

I think context is important here. I can agree that this amount of DPS can be terrible in the context of trying to charge the beam off small targets. However, I cannot agree that her primary is all that difficult to charge in the context of large ones.

Such as barriers, tanks, mei walls, and the like.

Contrast with Mei’s beam which does similar trash damage in similar time, but for that gives the HUGE REWARD of 1.5 sec stun. Sym’s trash damage for almost as long gives the reward of… slightly below average DPS, then after that able to deal quite good damage. Interestingly, the two headshots that Mei can easily land on a frozen target is 300 damage in 1.5 sec, which is 200DPS, basically the same as Symm’s max-power-level beam.

What I find interesting about this comparison is that you are willing to discuss the fact that Mei has two firing options but are unwilling to do the same for that of Sym. Sym also has a secondary weapon as well which is actually quite good at comboing from secondary fire to primary to finish off squishies.

LMAO. Someone who has good aim and knows how to aim doesn’t play Symmetra.

I would argue that these hero’s have a different type of aim. They tend to be of the flick aim kind as you do not need to follow the target through their entire movement but to land the dot on the target in time for each shot instead.

Meaning that people who can “aim” is a rather loose term. Someone with good tracking may very well benefit more from Sym then they would Widow or McCree.

[OhEmGee-2979]

Looking at the stats. Are more people playing her? Not really. Is she doing better? No.

Pretty hard to see the rework as anything but a failure to be honest.

[Banshee-22447]

In my oppinion as a former sym main.

3.0 is a nerf.

This thing in this build of the game may have her face and name, but its not her. (Movie: Face off. Comes to mind)

In my oppinion. i hate this thing. I want my sym back. Not this omnic with her face on it.

[TREB-21513]

However, I cannot agree that her primary is all that difficult to charge in the context of large ones.

Such as barriers, tanks, mei walls, and the like.

Well charging off a Mei wall is… kinda luck based. If Mei drops a wall near you for you to charge off, Mei made it easy for you, but if she didn’t then you’re SOL.

You can’t be so dependant on dumb luck.

Charging up from Level 1 all the way through Level 2 takes 2.66 sec and Symm has only 200HP. They’ve only got to deal 75DPS to kill Symm before she even begins to deal 195 damage.

What I find interesting about this comparison is that you are willing to discuss the fact that Mei has two firing options but are unwilling to do the same for that of Sym.

Just because I didn’t mention an irrelevant factor doesn’t mean I’m unwilling to talk about it, like now were I will do the redundant thing of talk about how irrelevant it is.

Sym also has a secondary weapon as well which is actually quite good at comboing from secondary fire to primary to finish off squishies.

No it’s TERRIBLE at finishing off, it takes 1.0 sec to charge up to deal 120 damage, so you invest 1 second of firing to deal 120 damage which could entirely miss because it’s quite a slow projectile. That’s effectively only 120DPS. So the very instant you move to deal 130DPS on your beam then the orbs are a waste of time. Not only would you do damage quicker and up-front with the beam you potentially charge your beam up to deal 195DPS.

The only possible comparison is both Symm and Mei using their right click charge attacks to start a fight, not to finish it. The difference is Mei’s fires so much faster she can get off almost 2 shots in the time Symm can shoot and land just one, Mei’s icicles are far more likely to hit and have quite a reasonable chance of dealing headshot damage.

Yeah, you can pre charge your orbs around corners but… that’s luck again.

Anyway, I get that you’re defending Symm and are fed up on her being crapped on, but would it really be that much of a problem that her beam’s damage scaled directly from 65DPS to 195DPS after 1.33 sec of attacking?

Though I see there is somewhat of a problem with that, her weapon has a little display on the back that shows 2 stages above baseline but this can be adapted to just function as a timer to show how much longer before it de-levels, which is a tad more useful than showing what you should have done or what you can now no-longer do because your beam de-levelled.

[MrTickles-1464]

Charging up from Level 1 all the way through Level 2 takes 2.66 sec and Symm has only 200HP. They’ve only got to deal 75DPS to kill Symm before she even begins to deal 195 damage.

Thats why corners and using the cover of your team is an important part of playing her kit. When you are a single body out in the open of course you’ll get melted. When you are behind a 900hp or 2000hp barrier and you are one of six targets it becomes an entirely different matter.

Just because I didn’t mention an irrelevant factor

My point is that it is not irrelevant. If you are going to make a comparison of one hero’s primary AND secondary but only to that of the primary of the hero in question then you are skewing the perspective of the comparison to begin with.

No it’s TERRIBLE at finishing off,

Nope, my experience has allowed me to kill a 200hp target very quickly with an orb comboed with some quick beaming.

[TREB-21513]

Thats why corners and using the cover of your team is an important part of playing her kit.

Dude, every hero can use cover and shields.

If they use cover and shields they’ll get more out of it than Symm.

If you are going to make a comparison of one hero’s primary AND secondary but only to that of the primary of the hero in question then you are skewing the perspective of the comparison to begin with.

I specifically said why it’s irrelevant and now YOU are unwilling to talk about that.

Nope, my experience has allowed me to kill a 200hp target very quickly with an orb comboed with some quick beaming.

That’s not finishing off, that’s STARTING off with an orb.

And in the same time Symm charges up and the flight time of her orb, Mei can have landed 2 icicles. Either one or even both of them could be headshots.