Counter play is the basic idea that whatever someone does you can answer back with something. It goes along the lines if they do this, I can do this. Some one shot combos have followed this rule. Rein charge is an easy example. If he lands the pin on a wall then he gets the one shot. But there are plenty of answers to it. You can sleep him, suzu, lamp, grip, hook, stun, hack, and just straight up kill before he hits a wall. Same is true for Hog hook. These are examples of healthy one shots because they can be countered.
Widow and Hanzo are unhealthy examples of one shots because they do not follow the rules of counter play. Once they land the one shot…that’s it. You can’t do anything. Your only recourse is to try and prevent one shots by either staying out of LoS ( ) or straight up diving them to make it more difficult for them. This goes against the fundamental idea of a Overwatch where counter play is a core aspect of the game. Widow and Hanzo are not Overwatch heroes imo. When they are in the game it’s not Overwatch anymore.
Well, the thing is ranged oneshots kinda don’t have counterplay.
Because you can’t really “Counter with your own Play” after getting instakilled.
There is no next turn. It’s immediate gameover before it even started.
So the issue is more about lowering frustration on the character in other ways.
But too many think this is Quantitative issue. (I.e. Sombra beats Widow)
When it’s a Qualitative Issue. (I.e. Sombra and Widow are really annoying, I just wanna enjoy the game)
It’s about fixing the “Feels Bad”
Also, for Hanzo, like +51% of his frustration, is long range oneshots on 225hp or higher.
Just give his arrows less headshot damage, past 40m range.
Although…I kinda take that back a bit, because I think StormArrows BuzzSawing Tanks is an issue
Gentle reminder that most ultimate abilities also fall into the “well-designed one-shots with counterplay” category.
Offensive ults normally either give opponents plenty of time to react before the ult kills them (e.g. Dva bomb, riptire), or they have specific close-range positioning requirements that make avoiding them pretty straightforward (e.g. earthshatter, death blossom).
I’d disagree that Hog has a healthy one tap. The reason being that I think a big portion of what makes pin generally accepted is that Rein puts himself in significant danger to pin and the risk matches the reward. Hog, Widow, Hanzo, Sojourn, etc. don’t. Their one taps are incredibly safe for the payoff and there’s no reason not to just use them on cooldown. Because even if you miss, 99% of the time you’re going to be fine and no one will be able to punish you for messing up and making a bad play.
I love how you guys forget barriers exist. I know junkerqueen, hog or mauga are fun to play but if you really wanted to deal with snipers you can also simply use barriers to completely shut them down. Dive like you mentioned is another way to deal with snipers, flanks, immortality, suzu etc. you guys act like hanzo is going around one tapping people left and right. Even the best hanzo in the world barely makes 10 headshot kills per game. Most of the kills from hanzo comes from storm arrows, especially now that blizzard nerf the projectile sizes back to what it used to be. As for widow? Sombra exist. I cant say much for widow because shes the opposite of hanzo, shes consistent at most ranges, is a hitscan and has a way better escape option than hanzo. Ive always been ok with hanzo as a whole, I have no issues facing him. Widow is a whole lot tougher to deal with, she also becomes a bigger problem at higher ranks. I think one shots are fine as long as they make sense. Having a hitscan one shot hero does not make sense. That alone will never ever be balanced.
Yes.
We need support heroes that can throw helmets on teammates. Make it a skill shot, so you have to land the helmet projectile on your teammates head and they cant be one shot.
Outside of that, oneshots as is do not make sense design wise in OW. Sojourn had the most sensible one, in the sense that she had to “build it up” and then she visibly glows.
I can see why people see Hog one shot being frustrating. But I’m simply talking about counter play here as I defined it and Hog one shot did have it. Maybe not as easily as Rein pin but certainly far more so than Widow/Hanzo.
I don’t actually mind Widow or Hanzo having their one-shot as long as they’re not getting pocketed by Mercy.
Once you pair Mercy with either of them, not only can they one shot you, but now they’re also borderline impossible to kill without a full team coordinated effort; they just become way too oppressive, imo. You can, of course, mirror them, but I despise the idea of forced mirror matchups, as I think they completely go against what gives the game its depth, which is its diversity in characters.
Everything you mentioned is preemptive steps taken to avoid the one shot. This is NOT counter play. You can’t counter something before it happens as a counter is a reactive action.
At close range that’s impossible. At long range it’s never really “aimed” at anyone in particular but spammed into a group of enemies which adds another layer of frustration. Long range Hanzo shots actually aimed at a particular players are rare. They’re really cool and skillful but let’s not pretend this is most long range one shots lol.
) or straight up diving them to make it more difficult for them. This goes against the fundamental idea of a Overwatch where counter play is a core aspect of the game. Widow and Hanzo are not Overwatch heroes imo. When they are in the game it’s not Overwatch anymore.
