Hog got butchered because of his one-shot nature, the result is the abomination he is now…
it’s only unfair if you assume they have 100% headshot accuracy, which they don’t
both Hanzo and Widow can have similar or slower TTK than non-oneshot Heroes,
if they miss, they won’t get any value unless they get a bodyshot, bodyshots don’t oneshot so if they aim for bodyshot they are losing in the longrun, and if they go for heashots they are more likely to miss entirely for a chance of oneshot.
Other heroes don’t have this inconsistency issue, and high accuracy requirement.
yes, this is very true,
the big problem is how this game turned out to be, you have one tank now instead of two, no more almost guaranteed barrier, Widow and Hanzo performance skyrockets on average, because there’s more open space for angles for them…
and… one of the hundreds of reasons why 6v6 was better…
“Ha!”
I don’t understand the Widow-pocket situation being problematic,
sure… they have Widow you can’t easily kill, but…,
if Mercy is with Widow, doesn’t that mean their team has literally only one Support? (because Mercy is with Widow)
but you don’t stand directly in front of Rein, that’s how you counter his main source of threat…
Nothing you mentioned refutes what I said that Widow/Hanzo one shots have no counter play. If you think no counter play is fine then that’s ok. But you can’t say they have counter play.
If Mercy is enabling the widow, the widow is going to be putting an immense amount of pressure on the enemy team.
The rest of Mercy’s team isn’t going to need her because the enemies literally can’t put pressure on them because there’s a pocketed Widow deleting them…
It’s like you looked at what I said and just erased the stupid amounts of value Mercy provides by pocketing Widow to try and seem like she’s not doing anything.
you can shoot them, try to dodge their deadly oneshot,
or become Blizz dev, slap everyone across face, release 6v6, and solve half the games because there would be at least one tank with barrier negating significant amount of Hanzo’s and Widow’s potential…
ah, an ancient relic of a game, but I do remember playing it
right, so assuming the Widow doesn’t have 100% headshot accuracy, this is not true,
one little barrier on tank, and the team can advance without worrying about the duo, and the afk team would then be the reason Widow and Mercy couldn’t put up a fight,
what value? you die to headshot without boost anyway, and you have time to take cover after bodyshot…
what is Mercy gonna fix? heal her from bullets that may fly her way? and dive?
Yes, and one of the biggest factors in how those one shots are perceived is risk vs reward. Hook and pin have almost the exact same counterplay, the reason why Rein gets a pass and Hog generally doesn’t is because pin has a risk equivalent to it’s reward and hook doesn’t.
That’s not quite true though. That’s what predictions can be considered: counterplay. I think you’re meaning something else specifically…? Though I’m not sure of the precise terminology.
I’m just going to assume based on the fact that you’re saying this that
A) You haven’t played against very many competent widows and don’t understand how oppressive she can be with Mercy.
B) You’re a casual player and are presenting your take based on a casuals perspective.
C) You’re one of the support shills on here who likes to downplay the capabilities of the support and present them as weak when in reality they are strong.
I don’t consider myself a gambler but I have my money on C but there is a possibility it’s a combination of both A and B too.
Only a handful of Damage-role ultimates are actual one-shots.
The characters with the most lethal one-shots, tend not have damage-based ultimates. Widowmaker is a good example of this paradigm.
This, unfortunately, does not hold true for the Tank-role.
Earthshatter isn’t an offensive ultimate, and also covers more range than Death Blossom.
But otherwise, this is fairly true for the Damage-role, but not the Tank-role.
Roadhog is limited by cooldown and requires a second-step or additional effort to make that one-shot combo work. Inbetween the pull and the kill-shot, it is possible to survive or avoid the shot entirely; but this only applies to certain characters and certain abilities.
Sojourn doesn’t belong in the same category as Widowmaker and Hanzo, because Sojourn had to build up to that that one-shot kill. Often spending more ammo-to-damage ratio than the actual kill shot; and it must be a critical headshot for it make a kill.
Whereas, Hanzo and Widowmaker simply had to pull for time or wait for the charge up and then land the critical headshot to occur before they could fire off a shot. Widowmaker also has warning calls when she’s in the vicinity and trails on her scoped-fire; balancing out her relative safety.
For Reinhardt, he does have to engage in additional risk with Charge, and it is limited by cooldown. There’s also the fact that charge is difficult to control or stop for non-Tanks heroes. Honestly, Charge was a lot more balanced as damaging ability and one-shot kill than a number of other abilities, but it also has tremendous range.
Originally, back in beta OW1 and even early launch OW1; Mercy did not have the range for Revive to be used behind walls like it was popular. Additionally, Mercy would frequently die prior to or during Revive ultimates, and those Revived targets did not have invincibility, either.
So Revive was buffed several times to compensate for these short-comings, but Blizzard didn’t realize that Revive was causing some player behaviors that they didn’t really like, and it took a tournament before they decided they had enough of the ultimate to change it.
Except that most OW1 stages didn’t have wide open spaces, but tons and tons of chokes that both encourage suppressive fire down chokes, and greatly improve the strengths of defensive plays through Tanks.
Or Junkrat trap. Or Bastion Sentry kills, or the most popular method; Cassidy Flashbang.
Later additions also include Hack, Molten Core, Sleep, etc.
Ice Wall also used to be a great pre-emptive method to shutting down Charge.
Hog hook was difficult to land in the double tank environment. People seem to forget that too. You had a whole extra person to bodyblock the hook or just straight up deny it with barrier.
Zarya, for example had much more room to bubble hook targets now that she isnt using her bubble charge on herself as often (since they were split)
You are correct that some predictions can be considered as counter play. Dodging a stun with mobility or a barrier is a prediction made to preemptively counter something the enemy does. My problem with the type of predictions used to counter one shots is that they are either VERY passive or VERY aggressive. The passive predictions involve stuff like supports staying out of LoS. In other words hiding behind a wall and healbotting to avoid getting one shot .
Or it can be aggressive in the case of multiple heroes diving the sniper who has a prema pocket. Which considering the low risk involved in the one shot vs the high risk of most dive heroes entering into their ideal close range it feels really unfair and one sided imo. To go along with the low risk of spammable one shots is the completely one sided results of the failed “counter play” you see as prediction. For example If I try to dodge a stun and fail then I’m in a bad spot but it’s not gg. You can be saved. If you ego peek a widow/hanzo as support and get headshot…well that’s that . And seeing again how low risk it was for them to take that shot in the first place it feels kinda unfair compared to those other predictive plays.
Overwatch is based around TEAM fights which means people staying within roughly the same vicinity as each other. All interactions with teammates requires them to be alive to do it.
1shot mechanics completely bypass all team based mechanics. This means coordinating with players to pick a target and take them out. Flush them for cover. Draw their attention. Overcome enemy healing. Force a cooldown. Other options.
So, encouraging 1shot mechanics is not very… encouraged.
.
. And seeing again how low risk it was for them to take that shot in the first place it feels kinda unfair compared to those other predictive plays.