I mean I guess it’s just a subjectivity issue. I don’t think she feels a clunky at all, and you do.
so.
Guess I just have a more aggressive playstyle so adding in 12 seconds of downtime every time I want to start an engagement is just extremely annoying. Especially when before the downtime was as low as 2 seconds.
I just liked when the character was actually versatile the whole point of the rework. I don’t like being forced back into a defensive playstyle especially when her previous iteration did a significantly better job at filling that niche
Wish you luck though
It is because they lose to that hero and it is a huge shaker of salt, it is why I am glad the players aren’t in control of nerfs and buffs, it would be the most horrid thing in this game, every hero they get beaten by would be nerfed into the ground and don’t even get me started on “No aim heroes lack skill hur hur.”
Not to necro this thread, but I feel as though your points aren’t lining up properly. You talk about Tracer as a fluid character, and adding a second delay to her blinks would make her clunky, then go on to talk about how Sym has a 12 second downtime between engagements (which is completely wrong btw), but when you compare the two characters, Tracer also has a 12 second delay in engagements with Recall.
That being said, Sym is perfectly fine how she is, she synergizes well with a frontline tank, and provides counter play to some of the highest skill floor heroes in the game. What more does she need? She can already microwave literally any target in the game, and gets reload from shields/bubbles. Compared to Torb who gets a “free player” in the form of his turret, and one thing that has always bothered me about the turret isn’t just that it’s autobot aim, but it actually gives no ult charge to destroy it. So characters like Widow/Hanzo/Junk who are usually the ones to “deal with” the turret, get absolutely no value for destroying it, aside from it not hitting you or your team, and not giving Torb free ult charge.
These are reasons why niche heroes need to remain niche, be good at literally one thing, and never break into meta heroes. They get too much value for not giving enough in return.
And in final thoughts; Blizzard doesn’t even know what they want for each hero. That is a statement of fact; Remember way back when Hog got nerfed because “it feels very unfair to have a tank that 1-shots players”, and yet, here we are again, playing with Roadhog, giving him god-like status, then putting back into S-tier. They don’t even know what they want, but what we want matters even less… Can’t wait for OW2.
As a Brigitte main, I want to live in this fictional world where the OW community isn’t toxic/salty towards my main. They want this game to turn more and more into a generic FPS game.
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Come join us Sym mains
I have no problem with the current brig and I think she might be fine in her previous state in the current meta too. The only problem is that she might just single handedly change the meta again if she gets reverted to some extent
i mean… I don’t think hero X should be bad, but I think some heroes should be niche, rather than just bad.
I don’t play the game currently so I don’t wanna talk about the hero’s CURRENT state. but as for Sombra, I don’t think a champion that disables abilities for a decent amount of time should be viable at all times, but I’d like if she was VERY good at a specific situation.
so to sum it all up,
No character deserves to be bad
but no character should be always viable.
I use to play sym 2.0 who was much less reliant on her own team. Back before infinite tp sym really didn’t need to follow a main tank as she was able to constantly claim new positioning herself. The 12 second downtime really hammered in the fact that sym needs to rely on her team.
I just hated how the rework to make her more versatile really cut down on her versatility for me. Sym is more niche than ever and she is being picked less and wins less than her old self.
The devs just took something that wasn’t a problem and made a problem out of it which just completely took all momentum out of sym 3.0.
I don’t want sym broken I just want a hero that flows nicely but if every time I use tp I need to have 12 seconds of just being a much worse sym 2.0 Then it really screws up the fun of the character.
I’d rather have the weakest version of sym 3.0 pre infinite tp then the clunky mess we have now even if her current self were significantly stronger id rather a kit that feels better to use.
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I would like the “annoying” characters
Mei/sym/doom to be reworked in a way to reduce the unfun aspects.
I don’t personally find them annoying as they’re so easily counterable (except doom I find him annoying and disgusting)
But they can finally be balanced once their annoying aspects are lessened and they focus more on other parts of their kit
I really dislike the idea of just removing annoying characters. I’d much rather have more unique characters that offer something new given that a few will be annoying to fight Than a ton of characters while fun to fight don’t provide nearly as many experiences
It’s like how in smash bro’s if you remove a character like ganon sure new players don’t have to deal with an annoying matchup but you lose a crazy kit that relies on a few hard reads in a match to win.
>literally a hero with low effective range, low sustain and now with infinite tp nerf, low mobility and lack of access to her burst combo too —> simply doesn’t have available enough tools to function as a hero
>“sHe’s fIne. yOu juST wANt heR oP!!!”
infinite tp did do exactly that (atm it’s minimum 10s).
utility, claiming new area, front line pressure, flanking etc. tp was the tool for sym to switch between those modes of play and those strategies.
without a tp cast, sym3.0 is forced to stay further away spamming orbs outside of their effective range and have passive structure placements because she can’t go where she wants to be to do what she wants to do on her own. of which contributes very little, much like a tracer or any other flanker is when BOTH their engagement and disengagement abilities are unavailable.
what infinite tp cd mechanic did was put the entirety of the cd to start after sym has finished getting value from it rather than have it tick away AS she gets value from it like most abilities e.g. tracer blinks and recall.
like here’s a diagram showing the difference between a parallelised cd vs a serialised cd:
by making it serial, it forces sym to literally wait longer before she can contribute again.
- please stop following the misconception that sym is somehow supposedly only just a devoted w+m1 battering ram + tp bot for double shield. if she was, she would’ve been a tank so that she’d could reasonably have the sustain to do that job rather than be a black hole for team resources because people like you insist on her being that way.
- she needs her old tp cast frequency (which we objectively know isn’t OP at all given the years we had it and sym underperformed throughout) and her orbs to be balanced around being actually aimable in midranged (no, 25m/s combined with sniper-like charge time doesn’t cut it). i.e. actually be balanced around sym combinig tp with orbs and turrets to individually make plays as that’s legit what sym is doing (and are mostly what opportunities that are available to her) for most of her match time rather than m1’ing.
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Bad in terms of bad in T500?
Or bad bc to hard for casuals?
Some days my hero is, useless bc of my skill…
Sombra best example, tracer and widow are candidates too
Widow can feel oppressive good or laughable bad…
Support sym rework that let’s her heal and help counter CC
So I have some ideas in regards to reworking sym into a support. But note that I am fine with her being a dps or tank. Just as long as she has a defined role.
1.) Turrets- Sym will now have access to 6 turrets. When she presses the button for the turrets she’ll have 2 options. 1 being the damage and the other being healing turrets. I’d say that the healing turrets should heal for around maybe 15 healing per sec just because it’d be a bit much to have them heal for a lot. I’d also the damage turrets show the character that is being damaged by them. I’d also have the turrets no longer have the slow purely because their annoying to deal with and she will be having more turrets. This will cause the sym player to have to chose carefully and will change depending on the situation.
2.) Photon projector(gun)- For the photon projector I’d have to change it so that she does have the ability to heal her teammates. I’d change her secondary fire so that it’s now a healing orb that just like the old orb deals splash healing and the amount of healing that it does is dependent on how long the player charged it. I’d also would like it’s piercing effect to come back which could make it a very unique part of her kit.I don’t know if it should be like anas weapon where if it hits a teammate it heals them and if it hits an opponent it deals damage. That’s left to whoever wants to participate in this little idea. For the primary shell obviously deal less damage. I thought about allowing it to pierce opponents at the cost of less range and for it to charge up quicker but that may not be needed. The primary fire will still have the same effects on shields which can make sym still great at combating shields. Overall, the orb one is merely to allow her to have a way of healing with also the requirement to have to aim. And I still want her primary fire to have use given how I want t avoid sym being a heal bot.
3.) Teleporter- I”d have the teleporter deploy quicker so as to allow the player to help their team get out of situations better such as a Zarya grav. If possible I’d also have it either have a full cleanse or at the very least lessen the effects of a move like ash’s dynamite. I’d also want it’s cool off to be like sombras translocator to start off when it’s used. I want teleporter to be used more and more creatively rather than a get out of spawn quicker move. I wouldn’t really change the cool down maybe increase it if the cool down starts once it’s used but that might not be needed.
4.) Ult- The one thing I liked about old sym was how unlike other characters she had more than 1 option when it came to ults. I want to keep that but I will not have the shield gen come up because I know that most players found that frustrating and I think we can replace it with something better. I’d keep her barrier ult merely because it is useful, I’d add her old teleporter because it can be used in certain situations. And I’d add another contraption called an anti cc generator. The purpose is to weaken the effects of cc. Think of it being a mini fortify without the damage reduction. Another idea could be sym creating a sort of different shield generator. This to me is what I feel like shield generator should have been. It would create a sort of one time bubble that would last for only one attack that is inflicted upon the user (sort of a zarya bubble).It does not give sym any real charge. However, it can be used to sort of block an attack and protect her teammates. Of course, it’s very situational but just like sym it can be used in varying situations and help out her team. And also the bubble is a one time thing just to repeat once it’s gone sym will need to use the ult again in order for a teammate to get a new one. And let’s not forget that it does not give her charge and it only lasts for one attack. I feel as though if it were similar to zarya then it’d get rid of part of her identity. This is meant to really help her team. It can help block últs like earth shatter, dead eye, meteor strike and so on. It can block anti nades or dynamites. It can clutch a battle. But It requires the sym to really consider when to use it. Sure it can block a meteor strike. But is it better to block that anti nade or shatter? This one time bubble requires perfect timing and syms that can use it will get major benefits. But let’s not forget that it accomplishes what original shield gen could not. Shield gen can block that head shot, ult it can do so much that the original couldn’t and yet is more creative then the first one. But her other ults can be game changing. With her tele she can use it to back cap a point a point with her team. She can combo it with her regular teleporter so she can give her teammate/teammates who are coming back to spawn with an immediate proper positiononing. Which also forces the oponentes to be careful with their ult usage. Her anti cc generator can help a team who wants to push or make a dive. What players hate most is trying to attack an opponent but they cc you to death. Imagine, a place where you can attack an opponent but a sym ult was able to not only save your life but help you secure the kill. The wall ult can stay and be used as it is. It can cut off that line of sight the opponent has and provide that much needed shield that can help your team.But overall these últs help sym be that ultra utility character we all wanted her to be. But let’s not forget that when you use these últs you must make sure you picked the right one. And that your opponents can destroy them and their is of course a lot of counter play to this. But overall I think this is what sym was designed to be but could never be. She can be that support that while yes can heal is meant to be a utility character that can bring so much to a team. I’d certainly be fine with other ideas I just want her to have more options given how she is know for utility.
5.)General- These changes are more meant for sym herself and none of her abilities. I’d give sym maybe 25 or 50 more shields. Which would equal to either 225 or 250 health. This is just meant to help her since she does have low survivability. I’d also give her a passive. I heard one where she gets a small amount of shields if she uses her primary fire on shields. That sounds fine but I’m open to other ideas.
Overall, the reason I’m doing this is because I believe a character like sym should be reworked given how she struggles to be a dps. She is a mismatch of other roles. And despite being such a cool and creative character she struggles to be that true dps. I think it’d be healthy to have another support. But I’d be fine to have her still be a dps or even a tank. Just as long as she has a defined role.
Hmm, I saw Support Symmetra and this caught my eye, literally.
As much as I respect your effort to rework Sym into a healing category, I feel that this type of rework is only making her more niche. (I’m still advocating for the DPS Sym side after all)
I feel that the turrets, despite however much healing they do would only be suitable for defence, it’s incredibly difficult to imagine having her turrets be the ones healing on attack. This would hold her team back very much, without enough healing output, your only reliable healing is your second support and for all we know you could be running Zen with let’s say this Support Sym).
TP having a cleanse is somewhat interesting and I’ve seen it be passed around a lot however I believe that something like this might be a bit too good. The fact that the cooldown also begins immediately (which is kind of like something that I’ve wanted to be put into current Sym) would possibly be too good. You could theoretically have infinite cleanse.
Giving TP a cleansing type of ability by itself also won’t necessarily be very useful imo. It’ll only be good if you’re up against certain characters.
Kinda confused if you had the TP in the Ult tho if we already put it as an ability (?). Giving her a building type shield-gen/tp ult would further push her back into the niche.
My main problem with the rework is that she doesn’t have a main source of healing. Maybe if you’d like, incorporate it into the gun? Her secondary fire doesn’t need changes back to piercing tbh, shields are already incredibly weak as they are right now, a piercing orb would only further destroy the shield tanks.
Thank you for sharing your ideas tho, also just a bit of advice if you’d like, maybe you could try adding spaces between each idea to make it easier to read :))
The old teleporter would be one of her ult options. And yes I do agree that she doesn’t have a main source of healing. I’ve been thinking of having her secondary fire just to be a healing orb with the effects being the same as the damage one (ie it has splash and the amount of healing it does depends on how long you held it). And focusing more on changing her primary fire but I don’t know how exactly that’ll help her
I’d also be fine with her being a dps. But really all I want for sym if you have a defined role and that’s it
I made some changes and made it look nicer. I forgot to put spaces. Sorry
Don’t worry about it lol, it was just a suggestion if you wanted to use it
