Um its literally EASY AF to know where the team is gonna be coming. This isn’t cod where you predict where enemy is coming from or to. There is literally only 1 or 2 paths and just keep spamming at one of those paths to get a kill. Dont give me the predicting the arc etc bs man. My main complaint is his easy ult charge. There are other heroes who are considered “cancer”. Such as sym or brigitte, but they all have their fair share of risk. But junkrat, nope.
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Great counter! You really didn’t a good job offering another perspective that helped change my mind and defend your position!!
All the non-mechanical skills you mentioned are possessed by mechanically skilled characters too. So technically a godlike Widowmaker has all the tools and decision making necessary to play the ‘brainless’ heroes.
You don’t decide what’s easy because not everyone hasn’t the exact same strengths and weaknesses and you
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That doesn’t change the fact that there can easily come a moment when you screw up and die because you got killed by someone with a rock. No one is saying a rock is better; just that it’s still enough to kill you if your ability is just slightly off for a moment.
Overwatch is a game. Each character is created with inherent weaknesses meant to be countered by another character. Often, one who is below them in skill requirement. This is not a factor that one needs to deal with in real life; no one builds a gun with a flaw on purpose give someone with a knife a fighting chance.
That (in addition to what I said about skill floor requiring CONSTANT peak performance) will always lead to any given character in this game being outperformed by another one, whether it’s Winston or Widow being hard-dived by D.va and Winston, or it’s Ana being out-performed by Mercy because her player is having an off day and the enemy is intentionally blocking her shots.
I wish we could combine threads lol
made a thread long ago talking about the same thing! No Aim =/= No Skill (revived) - #2 by H1st0ry-2750
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Hey, if you are consistently outperformed, maybe you are not as good as you think you are? Just a thought.
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You’re basically defining what takes skill based on where you perceive effort personally, which is based off your own skill level.
I find it is incredibly easy to determine the correct exposure for a photograph, or the correct combination of settings to get the desired effect, but plenty of people struggle at that and can take years to master. It is a skill I have developed and honed, not a “no skill” activity. Shifting a manual car is also really easy and I don’t have to think about it. Does that mean it takes no skill? Absolutely not. Plus, it’s easy to change gears badly, it takes more skill to change gears without your passengers noticing, to rev match smoothly, to heel-toe, etc.
What you just described about the paths (although it varies) is based on game sense and awareness of level design. That can be an easy skill to learn in some games, and harder in others. It can even vary map by map. It’s still not inherent.
And predicting the arc and travel is not bs. How many times have you watched a bad junkrat player bouncing nades uselessly in the wrong direction? Or overshooting? Or undershooting?
I’m not arguing that Junkrat requires as much skill as others heroes to have an impact, however I also won’t begin to suggest that any terrible player will have an impact with much meaning when playing against higher level players.
Aiming is a skill that certain heroes need, while they have to do everything those other heroes need to.
Of course they are harder…
I’m assuming most people don’t come up against good dive sides on this thread.
The idea that McCree, Soldier, Widow etc don’t require as much positioning/game sense as almost any other hero is nonsense.
If you are one step out of place as any of those three, and are facing even a half co-ordinated dive, you are dead.
Some hero’s are mechanically demanding and aim intensive, some are mechanically demanding but don’t require aim (Winston/Rein etc) and some require little of either.
I’ve clocked over 800 hours in the game, those heroes who dont require either are often not only easier, but more forgiving. On top of that they are some of the most effective options (Junk, Moira, D.Va, Mercy)
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Look im gonna make it simple here bud. I just want a junkrat nerf on the ult. He feels too rewarding to play even with 0 game sense. There is no skill on junkrat play.
If a sword can lose to a rock, no it isn’t objectively better. Its just an option. It might be more versatile than a rock, but its primary competition was a flanged mace - ie a sharp rock on a stick.
Most of the stuff you’ve heard about honourable weapons and heroic, skilled knights and samurai is pure BS. Made up centuries later to paint a romantic picture of the past. Instead of talking about the reality of archery, trebuche (ie throwing rocks) and clubs beating most options.
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His ult charge is too fast and I think it should blow up when he dies (I’ve seen some suggest it should carry on straight until it times out or hits someone). I’m not sure if there’s a need for much more than that, it’s also fairly easy to shoot down if the team makes an effort.
No matter how many times you want to repeat it, he’s not a 0 game sense 0 skill hero if you want to play him effectively.
And thats literally all that I WANTED TO PROVE. He has very high reward as getting the ult takes doesnt take much skill. And using the ult is also 0 skill. You can use it midfight on point.
Compared to other heroes he requires the least of skill and game sense. Even sym requires game plan.
I will admit I only read about the first 50 of these posts, but decided to go ahead and give in my two cents.
I have over 230 hours on Hanzo, 120+ on Mercy (most are pre-rework if that means anything) and 110+ hours on Zen. I have played both aim-based heroes, and non-aim based heroes and have learned the ins and outs of them through my time playing them. In my opinion, Zenyatta is the hardest of these three because you need the aim of Hanzo but the awareness of Mercy, so he’s literally a “do everything at once” kind of guy.
However, does this devalue any of my time on Hanzo or Mercy? No. Is my knowledge on Zen more valuable than my time on Hanzo or Mercy? Again no. They all play differently but have their own pros and cons.
Where Zen lacks in healing, he makes up for in damage which he uses to aid in his survivability. Mercy gives that up in order to have higher healing but as a result she has to rely on her team in order to survive. Where Zen lacks in utility (discord is his only offensive tactic) he makes up for one of the best support ults in the game, Hanzo only really gives his team sonic arrow in terms of utility, but makes up for it in damage, assuming his can land his shots.
Has my Hanzo game improved having played both Mercy and Zen? Yes I am more aware of the ult economy and positioning, but overall it’s still not comparable to Zen or Mercy. Does my Mercy game benefit from me knowing how to aim? Again yes, nothing is more satisfying than getting a Genji to panic ult because I know how to use my pistol and then flying away. The impact these skills have on my games on these heroes are lesser than the heroes they were made to benefit.
There have been games where I know the team needs more healing, so I switched to Mercy and gave up my killing card. There are games where I am not healing at all and so I switch to Hanzo from Zen and make a bigger impact by having that aim down. There are games where I am killing it as Hanzo but I see no one is helping out main healer so I go Zen to cover them, and that switch makes a bigger impact than if I were to be glued to their size as Hanzo. Then there are games where my team lacks coordination in order for Mercy to be effective, so I switch to Zen and between my sheer fire power and my team’s ability to follow a discord, I have been able to nudge the team to victory.
Any of these above experiences doesn’t devalue the others. Yes I was a “good” Mercy after only clocking in like 5 hours on her when it took me until hour 50 to be half decent at Hanzo, but that’s just because I had to get that mechanical skill to get good at him, but that’s how things are. Is it frustrating when a spamrat murders me as Hanzo or Zen? Yeah, it does, but I adjust how I play to get around him, as everyone should, in order to get into a better position to hit him before he hits me. I adjust.
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You should probably not be so hyperbolic then and focus on making constructive comments that can be backed up.
I don’t have a problem with him being able to cast in the middle of a fight, although a longer cast time would make it easier to stop him from suddenly exploding everyone.
That being said, an example of the problem with your way of putting things is you say using his ult is 0 skill. It’s not, not if you want to be effective with it in more situations. But it does potentially reward some pretty dumb maneuvers, again especially at lower skill levels where the other players are not aware.
edit: I will also add that I doubt these problems are as large as you think at higher levels, I would at least hope the team is making an effort to kill the junk in their midst. Unfortunately I’m not much higher than you and I routinely see folks fail to react so I think many of your problems are as much an indictment of the skill levels of the people you’re playing with.
It’s definitely a casual friendly game where positioning and game sense can carry you farther than standard FPS.
That said, ultimately it comes down to mechanical skill, especially at higher levels. It doesn’t necessarily have to be aim, but superior movement and actions will always seperate the contenders from the pretenders.
Did you seriously just blame the weapon for it’s user slipping?
Making better weapons won’t prevent dumb accidents like that…
The blame goes to the fact that the sword is far harder to use well and only slightly more effective than the mace in its ideal situation.
If a slip is all it took to kill you then you should have picked up a weapon that doesn’t require stances vulnerable to slipping to be used effectively. Like a rock tied to a stick.
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The main problem here its not the aim, is the false assumptions people make.
Just because you are DECENT playing Mcree you will not OUTPLAY everytime a GOOD Junkrat. Period.
That happens with many other heroes. Just because you are using a high skill capped hero, that doesnt grant you the “advantage”, YOU have to perform at the level that hero requires.
The example with Moira and Mcree made me cry out laughing omg. Mcree literally takes just 1 body shot and a headshot to make Moira explode. Oh you cant do it ? too bad, that hero is too much for you, dont blame moira because the player using her outplayed you.
Long range : Get near a corner and force her LoS
Short range : Body shot, flash, Headshot. Easy as pie.
Dont be mistaken, if you cant beat a Moira with Mcree, its not a game design fault, you got outplayed because of your bad positioning or bad aim. Blaming game design for getting outplayed in 2018 LUL
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