My problem with Baptiste + Solutions

Let’s talk about Baptiste.

Baptiste, in my opinion, is kinda like Bastion: It either works or it dosen’t.
Baptiste relies a lot on Shields. If you’re not planning to play Double Shield or Pirate Ship, don’t play Baptiste.

The reason is his whole kit is based around AoE Heals, which is not good. Either it’s op in previously said compositions, either it’s totally useless. And let’s not mention that actual Meta is Double Shield Tanks + Dive DPS, so Baptiste is only good at Healing his Tanks.

I like the idea of making all Tanks “Off-Tanks”, even if the Reinhardt Players probably won’t be happy about this. But what if we made all Supports Off-Healers instead ?

People complain that there is too much Healing in the game, that Healing Creep is a problem, and that some Heroes do not provide enough if not zero utility. This is why, today, we will talk about Baptiste specifically and what kind of changes he could use to become an Off-Healer.

The point will be to treat each points with Baptiste’s Kit and then suggest a potential Rework to make it less AoE’ish. On the end, the point will be to make Baptiste an Off-Support.


Primary & Secondary Fires

So, in my opinion, Baptiste’s Primary Fire is fine. Deals consistent damage, needs some aim to control the recoil, balanced in general. However, for his Secondary Fire, that’s where the problem is, as it is AoE Heals, which is something people does not like.

  • Healing Grenades now works like that: No more AoE Heals. Instead, when a grenade is threw, if an Ally is near it, the grenade’s trajectory will be modified in order to follow and hit the Ally. If it hits a surface or the ground, it will work like Pharah’s Concussive Blast but way less stronger, pushing enemies very VERY slightly away.
    • Here is how it exactly works: When you throw a grenade out, you’ll need to aim for your allies, instead of the ground. What it will do is if the grenade passes within a certain radius around one of your Teammate, the grenade will change it’s own trajectory in order to hit the Ally. No AoE at all, works like Ana’s Primary. Obviously, the Projectile Speed would be increased to make it easier to Aim, but the grenade will not go in a straight direction.

Ability 1 - Healing Burst 2.0

  • When Secondary Fire is pressed, it will apply an HoT on the targetted Ally. If no Allies are targetted, it will apply the HoT on Baptiste.
    • This is basically the new Healing Burst. Since it is an AoE Heals, I decided to make it his Secondary Fire with a targetting feature, like Ana’s Nanoboost. The Cooldown would be shortened to 12-15 Seconds, and this would be Baptiste’s new Self-Healing capacity.

Ability 2 - ???

For the Immortality Field Rework, as a lot of people find it frustrating, OP, or stuff like that, there really are many possibilities. I’ll share some of the ideas I’ve got:

  • Deploys a device on the ground that creates a circular Shield.
    • If you remember, there is an item that you can pick up in Overwatch 2, and when it is deployed, it creates a sort of cylindric shield. This is basically the same. 10 Seconds Cooldown, 375 HP.

  • Deploys an Immortality Drone above the Targetted Ally’s Head, making them Immortal for 5 Seconds.
    • This ablity can be applied to Allies through walls. Baptiste’s Immortality now works as a single-target ability, instead of a whole AoE Field that can make your whole Team Immortal. Maybe there could be 2 Charges. 13 Seconds cooldown, Drone is destructible. If nobody is Targetted, it’ll be applied on Baptiste.

Ultimate - Amplification Matrix

This Ultimate. The Amplification Matrix is really really niche. Either you place it perfectly but your Teammate does not use it because they decided to push, either you did place it perfectly AND your Teammate are using it and you deal a ton of Damage, or you screwed up and it’s totally useless, which happens almost all the time.

Really hard to get any value out of the Matrix, which is why it’s always better to keep it for yourself.

  • Amplification Matrix now deploys for Baptiste only. It is deployed in front of him, projected by his Mechanical Arm, and only him can use it.
  • When Baptiste throws his Grenade through the Amplification Matrix, they become the AoE Grenades again he used to have. However, it only Amplify their Healing by 50%. Finally, their trajectory becomes fully straight, instead of having a fall-off.
  • When Amplification Matrix is used, Baptiste’s Primary Fire becomes a semi-automatic weapon (3.75 shots per second if you spam click). However, there is no recoil applied at all, making it extremely easy to aim. Damage increased by 55%.
  • Amplification Matrix halves the cooldown of Healing Burst.
    • The point here is to make Baptiste more self-reliable, which is how most Off-Supports works. Obviously, it sounds like a Nerf since having twice as much Healing/Damage Output can be very strong, it’s still really hard to use. So, now, it makes it easier to use but you can get a bit less value out of it.

      Though it is great to be more agressive. If there is that one Widow who keeps putting pressure on your Team, using the Matrix will make it really easy for you to kill her. Also, I made the Matrix bring back his old AoE Grenades, because although I know the point was to remove his AoE Heals, this is an Ultimate, meaning it has to increase his Healing Potential. That’s why I made them go in a straight Trajectory.


Well, that’s it. I reduced Baptiste’s maximum Healing Output as well as reducing his kind of too strong Utility. Both his Abilities are Single-Targetted. Point here is to make him less reliant on his Team. You can now Heal your Flankers, Pharah/Echo, etc…

I must admit, he dosen’t sound that much of an Off-Support like that, but personally, I’d really love Baptiste with these Abilities. I did not change his Passive at all, I really like it, and yeah, don’t know what to say. People wants the AoE Heals to dissapear, and that’s what I tried to do for Baptiste. Only AoE Healer that should be kept as it is is Lucio in my opinion.

Again, I am in no position to say what should and should not be done for Baptiste’s Kit, I am not a Developper, I am definitely not the one you should listen to. I do not specifically want this to be in the game (Even if I think this new kit would be extremely fun to play) and yeah.

So, what do you think ? Should we go towards a game where Supports are all Off-Healers ? That’d be great ! Off-Supports are much more fun than Main-Supports, bringing all kind of utilities sure is much more fun than just being behind Shields and… Heal.

So yeah ! I tried my best ! What do you think about all of these suggestions ?

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We should make every DPS a utility DPS as well

Well here are my complains
For the most part it’s fine, I like the secondary changes, but

You should be able to heal bap and one teammate at the same time, if the team is near him it means he cannot self hean unless he runs far away from them and I don’t think it’s healthy

This has been suggested and I think immortality field could be replaced to a cleanse field, lasts 4secs, anyone who gets inside it gets every debuff removed, which I consider cool

I’d rather just make bap “overload” instead
It really is useless this way, and it feels like it should buff bap rather than putting a window, mostly useless since realistically it only affects the grenades, doesn’t make much sense than because he put window now he has no recoil

It also makes the achievement harder
Don’t make people go through this
It was a terrifying experience D:

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Is there a middle ground for that?

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Well, then it will not make Symmetra, Mei and Sombra useless anymore ! That’d be a great idea, if there wasn’t 18 DPS to fully rework… And besides, I don’t think the DPS are playing to be some sort of Supports who provide Utility but also has a big damage potential…

I do not believe so. It just works or not, because you need a Team that’s really packed up (Double Shield/Pirate Ship, yet in Double Shield you’ll only be able to heal your Tanks since the two Dive DPS will mostly rely on Health Pack/Ana)

That’s why I tried to make him more self-reliable while also being able to provide good utility to his Team and keep them Healed. Though I am really uncertain if the suggested changes makes him an Off-Support.

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If Ana throws a healing grenade at the ally and that grenade goes through the Batiste .ult does the grenade have an increased healing?

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As a support main…I actually think that sort of idea would be tremendously healthy for the game and much more fun for the support player. Well, maybe. I mean, I can only speak for myself, but it feels a lot more engaging and dynamic to the game when I’m participating in the battle in ways other than simply healing a person. So at least to the extent that I can speak for myself, it’s an idea I’m on board with. Giving all healers more things to do and effect the outcome of the battle sounds fantastic.

Can’t tell if sarcastic, but also a good idea. Imagine a MOBA shooter where the outcome of a match wasn’t strictly dependent on a DPS’s ability to land primary fire, but also their usage and mastery of utility cooldowns. The sentiment at least, feels true to the core of the game. Again, I’m on board.

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Kinda both lol
It’d be really hard since there really isn’t much you can do to give utility through workshop only
But I guess that’s something

Limited stealth nostalgia

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And I 100% agree with you. People complain about Healing Creep ? Supports complain about how it’s not really fun ? Then reduce the Healing, give more Utility, and it’s all fixed ! More fun for the Supports, and pleases the rest of the players

Well again, it strikes me as a fantastic idea in theory. The problem would be the amount of utility you would have to give to all the different heroes. There’d probably be overlap and that’d need addressed.

Specifically, I was thinking about how Hanzo’s sonic arrow can detect stealth Sombra (ironic since you made the limited stealth edit as I’m typing this). Like, what if we reduced the duration (of sonic arrow) but gave it a shorter cooldown? Now you have a DPS that has the utility of showing off the enemy behind corners, and possibly spot-checking areas for Sombra to assist in keeping the tanks and backline safe.

That’s two pretty decent bits of utility that Hanzo can bring to the table besides just eliminations. I’m sure if you got a team together you could hammer out decent utility for other heroes by either building up upon current cooldowns, or finding new niches that need filled.

2 Likes

I’m mostly concerned about Ashe
Mccree could use something with the stun
Widow’s ult I guess, she could also have multiple mines
Hanzo as you said
But Ashe?

She just boops
Perhaps something with the dynamite fire but still sounds somewhat weird
Don’t make me talk about support76
Biotic fields everywhere

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Giving Utility to DPS is not Easy. Maybe make Bob a Normal Ability ? He’d only have 500 HP, deals much much less Damage but can still contest points ?

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lol, you’re concerned with Ashe? I’m concerned with Brig.

“Okay, supports now get utility instead of healing. That means Brig’s handing out armor to everyone again!”

[[playerbase groans]]

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If Ana throws a healing grenade at the ally and that grenade goes through the Batiste .ult does the grenade have an increased healing?

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Make it so she can not give more that 10 Armor over their HP.
Make Rally reload a Teammate’s Ammo over Time, give your Teammates a Speed Boost, recharges their Cooldowns & increase the Ultimate Charge Rate, but drastically decrease the Armor provided. Ultimate cannot provide more that 35 Armor, but gives a bunch of boosts to your Teammates in counterpart.

Hmm, no, since it’s supposed to be a Self-Ability. And, Ana’s Grenade does not pass through Teammates, so that’d be impossible.

She can’t inspire
Playerbase rejoice

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Is it Inspire that people have a problem with? I always thought it was the healthpacks she threw to flankers that was causing the issues.

I believe that it’s both. Does not require Aim at all to Heal, she deals good damage and her Passive heals a lot, AND it’s AoE Heals, thing that people dislikes.

That is mostly a flanker problem since brig 1.0 counter flankers with armor more than helping them
I do think it’s inspire tho, it makes her heal her team and herself in a duel, clearly overpowered uwu

I’ll agree that people dislike AOE heals. I’ll disagree that it’s “a lot”, because it simply isn’t for any individual. Inspire healing is NOT keeping anyone alive any more or less than anyone else’s healing. It’ll heal people that disengaged from combat perfectly fine, but it’s not countering any damage in real time. In game terms it’s the…second-lowest healing provided by a healer? Only Lucio heals less.

The reason numbers look big at the end of a game is because she’s healing chip damage. In other words, damage that was never going to kill that individual anyway. All she can do is stop them from needing to retreat for a medback.

The only way that keeps people alive in combat is if said individual was already retreating behind cover every other second to recover that health, or if the enemy is rapidly switching targets instead of committing and focusing fire.

Also…“good damage”? Second lowest in the game, last I heard. Only thing going for it is that it hits an arc in front of her. And melee characters get that incredibly small advantage as compensation for not having a ranged gun.

Thing is, it heals as you deal damage. Brigitte is really huge when you and your Team are pushing, she leads the Push, and if your Team as a Reinhardt to keep his shield up while you’re doing damage, your Passive heals all your Team and will keep healing as long as you’re dealing damage. Heals more than Lucio’s AoE, which is also big for an AoE Healing.

She can win pretty much any 1v1 with anyone apart from Pharah and Echo if she’s played well. I’ve seen Brigitte killing Tanks solo without any help from their Team, thanks to her whole kit. By good damage, I mean that she can kill pretty much anything with her whole kit.