yes i didn’t say otherwise
The point jayne is making is that it’s better to learn the basics and adapt/climb naturally, rather than abusing a mechanic. Say you go pharah in gold because hitscan suck, that’ll get you to diamond tops before widows can snipe you from across the map. Then what? You got to diamond abusing that your enemies can’t aim, which means your positioning is still probably gold level, as is aim on hitscans, as is game sense etc. Once that mechanic stops working, you either plateau at the place where it stops working, or you lose sr and fall. Where as if you learn the aim, and keep improving on it, learn to correct your mistakes in real time, learn to take high ground more etc. You won’t fall.
I started around silver, and climbed 200 ish sr each season and eventually got to masters. I know i belong here because i worked my way up. My friend jackson was stuck in plat, mercy meta came around and he one tricked mercy, got to masters (before me even). You know what happened next? He already couldn’t play any hero at masters level besides mercy, then she was nerfed, and he fell like a rock. He’s back to 2800 now, and blames the machmaking/his teammates. Truth is, he took shortcuts, and had to deal with the consequences when his shortcut was removed.
There’s another issue as well, and this occurs at just about every rank. In order to out-smart your opponent, you have to be able to read what they are going to do, what the optimal play is at that current time, but if your opponent doesn’t think on that same level, then you’re overthinking for absolutely no reason.
What ends up happening is you try to out-smart the play that they should make, and they make a different play, usually one that is stupid and doesn’t make any sense at the time. This usually causes players to get caught off-guard and the smarter player often loses in this scenario. Dumb plays win games, and unfortunately the only way for this to be solved is to educate these players, or make the game not as forgiving as it currently is, that way you are more effective at punishing mistakes.
Another issue like you said, is how do you protect your teammates who are always doing the wrong thing, and do the right thing at the same time? Do you stay back and help them with their dumb decision? Or do you actually play properly?
I’m not dissing on Jayne or anything, but a lot of the things he says in his videos are pretty obvious to most fps players and SHOULD be common knowledge for just about everyone. There are so many basic things that he goes over, and I’m extremely shocked that the majority of players don’t know these things already.
Anyways, you will often get punished for making the correct play in Overwatch, because the majority of players just don’t know what that right play is, and either won’t follow up on what you’re doing (happens most of the time), or are just completely oblivious to it in general and yell at you for feeding.
This is a team game, and I HATE SAYING THAT, but unfortunately it’s very very true, in fact it’s so team-based that good players WILL and ARE held back by their teams the majority of the time and therefore are unable to get out of certain SR ranges because your team is only as good as your weakest link, and you’re individual skills aren’t enough to match the dead-weight that they cause.
If it wasn’t as team-based, it would be a lot better in my opinion. Others will say that they don’t think that an individual should be able to carry the entire team to victory, and I somewhat agree, but the thing is, if they are able to carry, then they will climb and get to a point where they can no longer carry (if the matchmaking system works properly), and that is when they start to build on their own playstyle rather than have to worry about masking everyone else’s mistakes.
So in the end, I don’t think that having more carry potential is actually a bad thing, even in a team game. I would much rather be able to punish the other teams’ mistakes consistently and be able to 1v6 (exaggerating), than be held back by the game design because they don’t want bad players to feel terrible.
On a side note, if players are punished more heavily for their mistakes, then those players will realize much quicker that what they are doing is getting them killed, which helps a lot for just learning the game in general. Right now, there are so many things that happen that are incorrect and go unpunished that it’s very difficult to pinpoint the actual cause of the lost fight, and unfortunately, since these players go unpunished, they never get to understand what they actually did on a logical level, because they didn’t die for their actions. Which reinforces bad decisions, and is counter-productive when trying to get better at the game.
TL;DR
The game is so team-based and so forgiving that it causes everyone to have a different idea on what the correct play is. It cause everyone to think in a different way because they go unpunished so frequently, and hurts everyone in the end because NO ONE is able to learn the game since there’s nothing that basically tells them, you messed up.
Just let players carry, and it will all balance itself out.
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Every rank brings its problems and every rank takes time to grind out of its not do this and you are a rank higher it does not work like that it is a grind and most people don’t realize you don’t improve overnight it is a grind because you are slowly getting better and climb for it even though you don’t realize it from day to day. Try watching a month from now to the first one you recorded and see the one you recorded that day/day before and compare the 2 i bet you will be surprised at what you have improved if you keep reviewing your own gameplay.
If you spend too much time warming up, you will be burnt out before you play Comp.
Yup, and the +/- 250 SR limit in LFG keeps us churning in the machine.
Jayne’s not wrong but I do think his delivery… lacks a certain measure of charm, tact, good taste…
Just because you’re one of the best in a game doesn’t give you the right to be a jerk to those not on your level. At a game.
Why do people take what is supposed to be an educational channel about improving and turn it into “this person is mean to me”.
It seems like everyone wants to hear that they’re a secret superstar player and not that on average most people are bad players and there are specific concrete reasons people are usually bad players.
A statement like
Shouldn’t be controversial if people are wondering why they can’t climb.
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In CSGO AWP can be considered “op” in low tier gameplay because people have no clue about smokes and/or positioning.
But in high tier gameplay AWP is a huge investment and is easily countered by a player who knows whats up.
Balancing game around plebs whining just results in the pro meta being broken AF
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Play Zaya + Duo with rein = profit
If that is true then my advice to OP is to make a new account with a fresh start on mmr
My first account was stuck in gold, couldn’t climb higher than 2300 for the first 5 seasons. Bought a new account, solo queued and placed in plat. Climbed to diamond that same season and i’ve been in diamond for almost 1000 hours since season 6.
Weirdest part is that after not playing on my main account for 8 months, I came back to it and immediately placed 2950, despite never reaching above gold on that account ever
The ranking system is just stupid sometimes
It’s because after 8 months you probably grew so much as a player that the stats you were putting out during placements were obviously that of someone who belongs higher than gold.
Maybe, but I never changed anything on my end. I never did anything to change my playstyle. I only solo queued like i did before, played the same heroes, and I never took the time to better myself or play more frequently.
The entire reason I bought an alt account was to reset my mmr and see if it changed my sr. Turns out it did.
Could be possible that I’ve just been lucky and was carried to diamond in placements and have been carried for hundreds of games as to not derank AND been just as lucky to do all that again on a different account, but it’s much more likely that the system is just screwed up.
Dude 8 months is a very long time. This is also coming from someone who believed that they were better than being hardstuck in gold in the first place.
Not really, in a lot of cases it’s just numerical figures. So if you consistently put up the same numbers that’s where the system will think you belong and even if you get better you would either have to win most of your games or put in a certain number of games to beat the previous average of your stats.
It’s not magic or flawed, it solely goes off of your own output on average.
A McCree that only right clicks is pretty useless, and can be dealt with pretty easy.
Him getting a couple kills on you with right click in a match doesnt mean hes totally useful.
A McCree that can aim and uses right click only when dived on or the occasional flank is a bigger threat and better for a team.
I think another thing I’ve noticed is that you can’t play high rank in low rank, either. Like, it rarely works to play high skill heroes in low rank. Even if you play them properly, you won’t get support from your team, and people will tilt because they don’t believe you’ll do well. I think this is a lot of why Ana is bad in low rank; it’s not just because she’s played poorly (Ana isn’t as hard to play as people say), she doesn’t get the proper support she needs to function. People don’t capitalize well on sleep and nade, they don’t peel for her, they don’t play in LOS. Same with Sombra, Widow, and Tracer (although they all can climb out of low rank if they play vastly above their SR by basically solo carrying).
I think some people who get hard stuck but are convinced they are better than their rank, who study videos of pro players, etc. might sometimes be trying to play high rank in low rank, and failing. Because even if they know how to play high rank (at least on paper) their teammates don’t, and their play style clashes with their team and doesn’t work.
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I sorta agree with him I’m certain scenarios.
Take the whole Mass Rez SR exploit(that wasn’t actually attempted to be fixed and was instead an entire rework, but I digress), people could cheat the system and fly up the ranks. But you eventually hit a point where A) hide and Rez was an even worse strategy then it already wa and tempo rezzes were way more efficient, yet much harder to efficiently pull off and B) your entire game sense was way below that of the higher ranks.
A high tier ana would clean up in lower league play. All of the “harder” to play characters Sombra/Tracer/Widow/etc aren’t bad in low tiers because they’re not getting support, they’re bad because people actually do not know how to play these characters and think the team should pick up their slack.
A great Ana in low tier play is going to tailor their playstyle around saving their cooldowns for when their team is actually fighting and not expect the team to be reactive around them. This is not even mentioning the Ana getting picks herself where applicable.
No character in this game is necessarily “hard to play” as in people can do decently with them on a basic level. But there are many characters in the game that are hard to play well. The average player can pump out healing with Ana and splash the enemy team or her team with grenades but that’s a far different story than an Ana who can consistently 3 tap, who is hitting a lot of sleep darts on critical targets and is using their grenades reactively around teamfights instead of expecting the team to react to them using it.
That’s just the Ana solo carrying (as much as a healer does) by playing vastly above her level. An Ana playing at a mid-level, like Gold, will play a lot better on a higher-rank team as a mediocre Ana than on a weak team as an outstanding Ana. Low rank teams just don’t know how to play with her.
I’ve felt this lately myself. I’ve been returning to comp now that I got my internet situation straightened out. I play Ana and Moira at about the same level. But coming back to comp, I can feel my teams benefit much more from my Moira than my Ana. I can play Ana ok, but my team can’t capitalize much on the utility, and the enemy team also doesn’t play right for Ana to be effective (strategies that would suck in high rank, like spreading out and attacking from multiple angles, are harder for Ana to deal with than a regular deathball comp would be). Also, Moira helps compensate more for the weaknesses of low rank DPS, which is hugely valuable; stronger teams don’t need that.
I addressed that already, it’s the higher level team picking up their slack. Yes a higher level team will respond more aggressively to an Ana throwing grenades or getting a sleep on someone. However that lower tier Ana isn’t going to be sleeping targets or grenading at opportune moments anyway. A gold Ana also isn’t going to be confirming kills and missing enough shots that they’re letting their teammates die.
That’s because Ana is hard to play. Your Ana play likely just isn’t on the level that Moira’s straightforward effectiveness brings. It’s really easy to get effectiveness out of Moira, you’re just pumping out healing and it’s easy for you to burn down enemies with Moira’s absurdly large damage hitbox. It is harder to play Ana where you probably would not be easily confirming kills on the enemy Genji and have to really concentrate on hitting your heals, sleeps and outputting damage while watching your positioning as you no longer have fade for safety.
This goes for all “easy” vs “hard” characters. Yeah in the grand scheme of things it’s not “hard” to move your mouse and click someone’s head but there’s a reason why gold Widowmakers or Tracers are often more of a liability to their team than a much safer pick like Soldier. I fell into this same trap even when I had tons of time on Tracer and would be annoyed that my team would never take advantage of my flanks or they wouldn’t pressure the enemy team enough so they would all turn around and attack me. It took me a while for my skills to be on the next level that I could literally solo perform or I could be cognizant of allowing my team to act first.
I mean, that’s possible, but I also feel like low rank teams don’t really play in a way that works well with high rank heroes. For instance, with Ana, if both my team and the enemy team fan out and skirmish instead of playing around the tanks, who am I supposed to nade? And a lack of a solid team core to keep flankers at least a little under control gets you killed. Whereas Moira absolutely thrives against a disorganized enemy team and isn’t badly affected by her team being disorganized.
I guess the reason I feel this way, is that you get a feel for both the quality of my team and the enemy team. And if I’ve got a bad team and the enemy team is bad, I am far better off running Moira. But if my team is solid and the enemy team is also good, I am better off running Ana. You can really feel Moira getting worse and Ana getting better as both your team and the enemy team improve.