I know it’s not clear in the patch notes but in Molly’s post she said exactly this. So yes, “lol” I did read.
E - Also, see the post below.
No if you read the developer comments here,
This round of changes is an iteration on the first Moira experiment we tested with in July. With these changes, we’ve tried to reduce to overall power level of this new Fade ability, as it was just capable of doing too much in its last form. Now, it cannot cleanse negative effects or easily allow people to escape Sigma or Zarya ultimates, but is still a powerful tool to reduce significant incoming damage if it is timed well. As for the Damage Orb changes, this is a totally new direction to try and accomplish the same goals as before: change the ability from an easy to use but low impact ability, to a more skillful and higher potential impact ability. Landing a Damage Orb is now much more challenging but the reward is also much higher.
This is the kind of iteration we’re constantly doing internally when making changes or designing new heroes. The Experimental card gives us an interesting opportunity to show how things evolve and are tested over time. Keep in mind that these are purely experiment changes and are not likely to go live.
2 Likes
So at least to me not that huge if you can’t clear antinade…well it’s only experimental.
I mean, it’s harder to land, but it’s also been significantly buffed if it actually lands on a hero that would otherwise move away from it. Can’t swift strike or Uppercut away. And she still has her healing orb to sustain through duels.
A reliable 120 damage on a flanker. More than they’d otherwise suffer unless trapped in a 8m wide room with no doors.
I’m not advocating for the changes or anything, but it has its benefits. I definitely don’t agree with the loss of cleanse on Fade though.
I feel like the increase in CD for fade and it not allowing you to escape from grab anymore is just not worth it. It makes Moira less slippery and fun and is just bad utility in my opinion. I don’t mind the grasp nerf. Damage orb stinks. I just want Moira to remain the same if this is where they’re taking her. Or give me the 150 dps orb at 1-2m or whatever it was and not this sticky crap. Or just implement the grasp reduction and nothing else if they want to nerf her.
But they didn’t… other than the fade thing which I have doubts about and also incurred a 2 second CD nerf on fade.
You are correct, she isn’t a DPS. You don’t seem to understand what she actually is though. She is specifically designed to be a Main Healer who can duel characters with hyper mobility. That’s her shtick. This experimental changes hard core breaks that because it largely removes all of her ability to hit a Genji/Tracer who’s just… all over the place.
Guess what… it also isn’t fair for a 100 hr Genji main to be able to absolutely dumpster any support hero in the game without said support either putting in way more hours than him or getting stupid lucky. Overwatch is a game of picks and counter picks… not “Pick Genji and soft counter an entire role for free.”
4 Likes
Can’t clear dynamite anti-nade and other effects. That’s all it was good for.
Fading into danger to save an ally with 1 second immortality is bad.
Baptiste can do this from any range (with aim) not putting himself in immediate danger (unless dived) and it’s more impactful wit h a better radius, health and duration. The cooldown is only 3x as long too. Why have a bad unreliable escape + immortality tool when another support can do it more reliably on a longer cooldown.
On top of nerfs to orb AND grasp this is not enough of a buff
2 Likes
Why wouldn’t it happen in practice? If people aren’t sicking together then the old orb would have done 40 damage and flied away. You can’t have it both ways where the new orb doesn’t do anything but the old orb would multihit. If there are shields then the old orb would also be useless tickle damage that only charges up enemy support ults.
This new orb is a lot better in the hands of skilled players. Moira players keep whining about Genji and this orb is a huge buff against Genji. Just get close and stick the orb, that’s 120 damage the Genji can’t do anything about but again it requires skill just like all heroes should.
No character should be ez hold button/throw orbs wherever. Requiring skill is a good thing and you can show your skill with it.
In order to reward better aim there needs to be a buff. But in fact there are only straight nerfs. Therefore there are no rewards and only downside.
1 Like
But that schtick felt like raid-boss oppressive. There wasn’t enough skill differentiation between random Moiras and Moira mains. And there wasn’t much skill expression vs. their dps counterparts.
When you punch 100 hours on dps, sit 5x the queue times for 5x less matches. When you have to run aim trainers and warm up. When your fps/lag have to be literally perfect…only to be dominated by a Moira with 15 hours or 350 hours - it doesn’t really matter - that was oppressive and needed a skill/risk/reward tuning.
They’re ‘nerfing’ the ezmode dueling components of her kit. And they’re doing this via accessibility gating, because the ttk will shift by aim breakpoints. And her support value will shift by brainpower breakpoints.
No it is a nerf but will reward better aim with non nerfed damage output
Because the new orb needs them to be within 4m of each other… the current orb doesn’t in two different ways.
It’s that simple. Because it doesn’t need to stick to someone, Current Orb has an effective range of 8m instead of 4. Also it can hit 2 players who are 20+ meters away as long as they both happen to be within 4 meters of its flight path. Meaning… yeah… you’re gonna get more multi hits with Current Orb. Also this just straight up removes Moira’s ability to turn tight spaces into a death trap.
Try a huge nerf. Genji double jumps over it? Grats, you got nothing out of your 10s CD. Genji reflects it? It isn’t going to deal any damage to him while it is still flying at him and hasn’t hit deflect yet. Then… if he reflects and sticks you with your own orb… well you’re just dead unless your fade is still up.
The ability to abuse geometry with the current Orb is way more skillful and unique than just hitting yet another linear skill shot.
5 Likes
It wasn’t oppressive because the DPS role has 15 heroes in it. Moira is very effective against DPS who rely on mobility to survive. DPS who relied on high damage or self sustain (or both) had zero problems with her.
Remember how I said Overwatch was a game of picks and counter picks? Moira can’t do anything except run vs a decent Soldier or Reaper. Pretty sure she can’t threaten Torbjorn either.
It’s only oppressive if you decided to stubbornly stick to playing Genji or Tracer into a Moira.
7 Likes
I’m fine with having to aim more, but it’d be cool if RMB did more than 50 DPS if that’s the case!
The way purple orb blips out of existence when it hits a barrier just feels…weird. I think I’d rather have it ricochet off, and instead of it dissipating after a couple of bounces, live for three or four seconds instead.
2 Likes
Not at all. Her primary fire is literally just worse,
Orb cant be used for flankers anymore(which was it’s intended purpose btw), moiras escape has longer cooldown plus the downside of her basically killing herself for the secondary effects. You get one buff and like 5 nerfs
5 Likes
people still think aim = brainpower? jeezzzz… its muscle memory. real brainpower is using resources effectively. these moira changes are an outright nerf. the 8s group fade cannot cleanse abilities, only lasts 1 second too. her orb is harder to stick onto enemies, primary firing or other heroes guns are easier to use. literally moira is outshadowed by baptiste in every category. bap can heal himself and group? check. can give immortality on a cd? check. has a pretty good ult? check. bye bye moira, have fun in the pit with brig orisa and sigma
Old orb: 4m radius in all direction from where you fire it. 8m diameter
New orb: 4m radius around a person. When are teammates as close as 4m. Mercy can stay further away than this and she’s practically tethered to the hero she heals.
They are buffing her possible capability in high tier while nerfing her in low tier. For top down balancing this is the right direction.
Does it at least damage the shield when it’s destroyed by it lol
Not that I can tell, but I’ve only had it happen in a game and not a controlled environment. The orb just pops like a bubble.
I think her Invinci-Fade is a hard utility to both gauge and balance. If you want to make her harder to play then really, it’s going to be better all around to play with the damage and leniency of RMB. Other supports already deal damage, like Ana’s ~85 DPS and Bap’s ~115 DPS, so it’s not uncharted waters like this Fade is. Especially since they seem intent on screwing around with purple orb, since the main problem with a tighter RMB is the burst potential of a deadlier RMB plus purple orb - something that isn’t an issue since they’re going to take purple orb around back and shoot it anyway.