So the title speaks for itself. Many of the popular first person shooters do not use an MMR based system to match people, but rather have people climb ranks through the use of a point system. In fact you can’t decrease your rank only your tier. This seems authentic and geared towards a competitive and professional Esport scene, because it shows the best players, not because of manipulation of matches and placement, but through their ability to actually play the game.
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unpossible. you must have handicapping to have fair matches …
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It’s “impossible” and handicapping is used for gambling, not for a competition. You don’t put weights around an athletes ankles so he runs slower.
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No. You need to trust the SR system and just allow random matches to happen. Before long, the matches would NATURALLY be pretty even, and you wouldn’t have to force it. By using a hidden MMR to assure each match has even teams, Blizzard has made it so the game isn’t actually competitive at all and that ranks mean almost nothing.
That would be like the NBA switching players on each team to force every game to have even odds. You know what would happen? The top players would end up on teams of the worst players, just to make it fair. And that’s what Overwatch does.
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sure you could just put random people into games, that would be such a great experience!
spoiler alert: the matchmaking rating (MMR) is manipulating match making, that’s what it is designed for. but not in the way you think. it is there to FIND PEOPLE OF SIMILAR SKILL AND PUT THEM INTO THE SAME GAMES!
and if you still think games are manipulated to make you lose, ask yourself why the same games are manipulated to make the enemy win, and why are you never on the enemy side?
And if you are in the same rank you are theoretically the same skill. No need to make the match more difficult especially with the huge smurfing problem.
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its called sarcasm … and i guess it needs to be spelled out specifically but i’m no fan of the MMR system.
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Completely agree with this thread and I’ve been saying this for years now !! The game shouldn’t have MMR, matches should be made by SR and SR only… The whole MMR thing trying to make “fair” matches in a competitive environment is pathetic, simply because competitive shouldn’t be fair.
With the MMR, you could be placed onto a team with 5 other players who are absolute dunces, when you’re clearly way higher skill level than them, but so has the other time right? They have 5 players on there team who are woeful, but they also have 1 player on there team whose the same skill level as you, MMR has done this to even the teams out so the 2 best players are both having to play with 5 bots each on their teams…
Now if this happened randomly it wouldn’t bother me, but because it’s happening to try and make “fair” matches in competitive, that’s what annoys me. It shouldn’t be fair.
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ya but were not contractually owned by some sports group, and without a system that keeps players of different skill levels separated. Your going to have matched were you’r going to have reapers sitting miles from a point standing perfectly still trying to shoot enemies for like one point of damage at a time. While a pro widow player stomps the rest of your team with one head shot after another. I’m sorry but that would make games extremely random in either teams favor.
The system would need an entire rework and probably a reset. The issue I see is the non-transitivity imparted by sparsity.
In the dark regions of the ladder, e.g. low or high ranks at off hours, you’re going to have A farming B farming C farming A, and no one changes sr but all have gotten btter. Not enough natural ‘mixing’ unless you start intervening again.
This already happens of course. But ought to be solved if gutting the mmr out of the sr system.
I ask myself that all the time, did someone find the answer?
yeah the answer is: it’s not the matchmaker
How is ‘a point system’ any different to MMR? I’m assuming in these games people are matched based off of their rank which they obtain through use of the point system and it isn’t just completely random. Otherwise, what’s the point?
Point system means you gain points for your performance and that applies to your rank. The better you are the more you will climb. This isn’t manipulated by hidden stats and algorithms, but by your actual performance, so a computer doesn’t say x should play vs y, but your actual performance. This system allows people to climb and eventually they reach the level they should be at naturally. Blizzard is all about creating artificial experiences, that’s why they wont let a Ban system be implemented, but instead are creating Hero Pools, they decide meta, who is playing what, and ultimately, who is playing who.
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Which e-sport games you refering to because AFAIK CS:GO, Quake and so on all use hidden MMR systems (similar to blizzards).
Would be PUBG I guess that don’t really use anything atm but they working on it…
bNy Apex Legends doesn’t either. It’s all stat manipulation. It’s like the illuminati trying to create the perfect society. Ultimately society can’t be manipulated and more than not, people are dissatisfied with the experience. I.E. social engineering.
as a person who played in every elo I admit that some plat games can be hard (idk if due to MMR or more probably a person just having a bad game and you reconstructing it on MMR a posteriori), but if this is due to MMR I am glad it exists. Ranking up should be hard and plats in particular are super entitled and cringy so they need to have it extra hard to have their ambitions kept in check since their skill is generally very low yet everyone I met in plat genuinely believes he’s t500 material.
If players keep leaving (and they are), then ladder sparsity will become a thing (already is). Meaning they’ll have to renormalize (i.e. reset). Or, they’ll have to implement a non-parametric, non-Bayesian, non-distribution based matchmaking system. The elo/trueskill doesn’t do this well and it’s basically outdated and foolhardy.
Something akin to combinatorial bin testing with silent tournaments. See the papers I’ve written on this topic. Mix people into games, sort the winners/losers brackets, mix again, sort, mix, etc. This sieving will lead to quicker queues, work on sparser data, and allocate sr quicker. But the games might feel weird at first.
I mean we’ve been saying their system just doesn’t work for years, but they go on with these dev talks about sorting player icons. Hey OW team - now that you got icons to sort/filter, can you sort the players themselves maybe? Thanks.
So, for a second, lets examine the most popular shooter games out there, Fortnite, PBUG, Apex Legends, and Black Ops, all essentially battle royale. Why are they so popular? Because there reward system isn’t based on a 50% win rate, in fact you go in to most games understanding there’s a good chance you are not going to win. The reward system put in place has more to do with the individual performance. So you lose, but you still were able to take out three to four people along the way, as an individual player you feel like you did good and statistically you were rewarded for your performance through points for kills and revives and such, and not penalized for a good performance because your teammates weren’t good. MMR and algorithms don’t create a fair match, they create an addictive experience with the intention of drawing the person into the game more. They allow win streaks for a reason, just like they create losing streaks, these increase the addictive nature of the game. This was never meant to be a fair representation of match making, it was meant to drive sales and create an experience that kept the person playing and increased overall profit, plain and simple.
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It’s because of WoW ~ They use a similar system in PVP
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