Mercy not being "fun or (personally) unimpactful" is not a valid arguement

[Dva-21640]

I can’t be bothered to quote it as he rambles a bit.

Then this conversation is over, bye.

[Matsy-21502]

I picked out the main bit.
Whats the issue?
The rest of it is just talking about E Res and Valk.
You are putting too much emphasis on the disheartening to play against angle.

By your own logic, JEFF HIMSELF talks about the playstyle first, so that’s the main reason…right? or does a community manager trump him?
I’ll take Papa Jeff’s word over a random community manager.

[Fin-11340]

Cast res makes mercy skillful and make decision

I don’t know if I agree with that. When to use res is pretty black and white. Is the soul in a safe enough place that I can survive 1.75s of glowing-statue time? Pretty simple.

you can heal your entire team without worrying about death. You can kill a widow. you can damage boost rush them.

You definitely have to worry about death, at least in like Masters+. You also have to worry about your team just dying regardless of your healing because 60hp/s isn’t as strong as you seem to think it is. Killing a Widow… again I feel like rank kind of plays a role in how able you are to do that. Damage boost means it’s then on your team to actually hit shots. YOUR role as the Mercy player here is basically minimized with Valk.

I have more feelings of carrying with valkyrie than throwing with it.

I don’t understnad this sentence I guess… no one’s ult should feel like you’re throwing when you press it?

When people complain that you dont feel impactful with valk it’s because you used it wrong.

I disagree completely.

but using the argument of fun for balance is irrelevant

I’ll echo what others have said because this makes no sense. “Unfun to play against” was a huge reason to change her in the first place.

the rework movement is not gonna work because everyone wants something different. more people like valk than I think some people think about.

I think the important thing to remember is that by discussing a topic like this, a large part of the goal is to at least get Blizzard to participate in the conversation and come to some form of compromise for all players involved. Unlike the Mercy rework in the first place

[Matsy-21502]

I don’t understnad this sentence I guess… no one’s ult should feel like you’re throwing when you press it?

Except Mei as you throw Snowball.

[Fin-11340]

Balancing is based on these 3 points

At this point I don’t know if all of these 3 carry equal weight, and I would argue there are multiple subgroups in the Playerbase one

Mass rez wasn’t liked by many players.
We all have seen the threads back then. The majority seemed to dislike it. Mercy’s ult had no counterplay other than dealing with Mercy before she ulted. (This could’ve been easily fixed though.)

“Unfun to play against” yes, all ultimates are. And even you said that it could have been easily fixed, but there wasn’t even an attempt to do so, which is a part that annoys me to no end.

The devs thought it promoted bad play, which it did. The hide and rez part of it. This is not how they wanted to see her played.

Hide and rez… my god… yes. It existed. It was a viable strategy because of the performance based SR abuse, not because it was actually a strong way to play the game. That, too, could have been addressed before drastically changing Mercy. Besides, you don’t always have to play the game the way the developers envision haha. That’s part of what’s so interesting about making a game in the first place, but I digress.

Mercy wasn’t viable back then. Especially not after Ana’s release. I could be mistaken, but was she not even F-tier once before her rework?

She also missed an entire ability slot. That could have been used to help make her a more balanced character. Not what we got.

majority of the playerbase doesn’t complain about Mercy’s ultimate anymore.

Honestly, from what I’ve noticed, a lot of non-Mercy players never liked her to begin with. Of course they don’t complain now, Valk is a pretty unimpactful ultimate. They’re happy to see her in such a state, imo.

The devs have stated that they are not going to revert and rework Mercy anymore.

This is only one part of the triangle, I don’t think their word should just shut everyone else up. As “entitled” as it sounds, we payed for the game and our continuing to play, and watch esports, and buy lootboxes, etc. are the reason the game continues to exist (I was going to say flourish but Overwatch “dying” is a-whole-nother conversation haha).

Her average healing is on par with other main healers and her pickrate is still healthy. It seems it’s better in low and mid ranks than in high ranks, but this could be blamed on the fact that Mercy isn’t meta.

The on-paper balance of the hero isn’t necessarily the biggest concern right now. Also, as a lot of people mention, look at her on fire rate haha.

[Fin-11340]

Except Mei as you throw Snowball.

Ok, you definitely got me there haha.

[QuizzyBunny-2512]

I mean, you don’t have to consider those arguments of any value, but if people find themselves bored with the game they will eventually stop playing - some might think “good riddance!”, but it would be very bad for business. Not to mention there would be even less supports playing. I like other characters other than Mercy, but they have also been tampered with and are no longer the same characters I fell in love with - D.VA and Symmetra are the two that first spring to mind. And because of this I find myself caring less and less about the game.

[Zwei-11485]

Because there’s like 2 Reaper mains out there and none of them want to step up and push for changes. You don’t get anywhere by being silent and inactive.

[anon63781830]

What I was saying that “unfun” should be the only reason to change the hero, mercy didn’t changed because it was just unfun but it changed for a more valid argument that they have to rework her.
some people want to rework mercy because they think she is not fun to play which is not valid argument if it didn’t supported by actual argument.

[Zoticus-11293]

Because there’s like 2 Reaper mains out there and none of them want to step up and push for changes. You don’t get anywhere by being silent and inactive.

you’re actually right. it’s probably why reaper has been god-awful for two years straight.

[Shy-21196]

The reason is dislike this whole entire movement is the way people use that she isnt fun as a reason to rework a character

Everyone has different opinion I get that, but using the argument of fun for balance is irrelevant

So you see, im staying out of this conversation at all, like, I dont really have an opinion on it, but the whole reason why mercy was even reworked, was because she was unfun to play against, so it technically would be a valid reason to rework her because she’s unfun to play.
Just saying.

Though what I do have an opinion on is the overall rework.
We were promised that she’s

• more engaging (which, in my opinion, just isnt true)
• more fun (idk, im kinda split on this, because I just feel like with rez being in the game on E it just keeps her ult from actually having this “oomph” moment which would make it more fun, since it drains so much power from her kit)
  I just feel like this rework overall wasnt really successful since it either makes mercy a must pick, or just weird to play since she doesnt really have a place anywhere.
  I love the strategy that the cast time on E rez brings, but at the same time, if one or two instant cast rez’s atleast in valk could be balancable, it would be so much more like, smoother, and you’d feel more impact in a valk if you get what I mean. This is just my personal opinion tho, and I do not want mercy to be op again. I just want her to be fun/impactful and balanced

[Jaaash-11919]

same can be said for mercy 1.0 and coulda been tweaked before doing an unneeded rework.

we don’t get to decide if ‘unfun’ is a valid reason for changes. blizz used it as one of the major factor for her rework.

[GoatOfLegend-21728]

Would you go back to Mass Res, knowing it would likely result in an overall net nerf?

[Patroclus-21714]

And if she had Mass Rez again,it would just result in more nerfs to her,to that ultimate.

Line of sight checks + cast time (which people want to be less than a second long) + damage reduction wouldn’t change anything.

So imagine how much more Blizzard would have to nerf it.

[Starlord-22320]

First and last time if i write in one Mercy thread.

I cant help but threads in this forum is “Highlighting a problem” and “The highlighted problem is not a valid argument” and thats spiraling since the rework.

The impact is really went down. I used to hate when i heard “Helden sterben nicht!” now i just shrug and continue doing damage/etc.

Good Mercy players had to jump right into the battlefield to do a Mass Rez, now even the pros remain in one place during Valk because the enemy doesnt care about it.

If the old ult comes back, yes it needs nerf before it could go to PTR. LoS requirement and a short cast time. It could solve the impact and the balance as well.

[Tempest-22844]

Forums: Mercy isn’t fun is not an argument to change balance

Also Forums: Omg mass rez, instant rez, Doomfist, Brigitte, Hack, Symmetra gun, Bation, Moira softlock isn’t fun to play against. Please Nerf REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Vayreena-2741]

From F-Tier and just being a shiny attachement to some DPS getting frags to F-Tier but at least having an exciting hero moment you can work towards and feel like you, yes YOU, did something as Mercy for a change?
Yeah I’d be okay with that.

[Tempest-22844]

I mean seriously, how many times have you heard that voiceline and thought “Omg, our push is a failure”. How many times have you heard “You’re powered up, get in there” and started looking around panicked for a glowing enemy that will wipe your team. Or “Pass into the Iris” and thought, dear god, I just wasted my ult for nothing.

[Dva-21640]

There are a plethora of arguments as to why Mercy should be changed that have nothing to do with fun or entertainment.

• Her kit is unbalanced. Valkyrie is arguably weaker than one of her two basic abilities.
• Valkyrie encourages detatchment based on its properties. A Mercy in the skybox has the same impact as a Mercy using the ultimate to its fullest potential.
• The entire rework is aesthetically lazy. The developers clearly lacked a vision, seeing as the ultimate lacked a voiceline for 1-2 weeks and sound effects. The resurrection animation is the exact same as the old one, but slowed down. For the Mercy player, it looks like she’s constipated as she revives an ally. All of these point to Mercy 2.0 not being the developer’s best work, which is unacceptable.
• Hiding and Reviving is practically mandatory now.
• Revive is a cheap ability to use when on the receiving end of it.

[Hypersonicy-1720]

But being “disheartening” to play against was enough to rework her in the first place. Why it isn’t valid argument now.

Because she was ACTUALLY busted, and her entire hero concept of mass rezzing was counter-intuitive for the game.

Current Mercy isn’t that.