Mercy is in a bad position, and here's why! #ReworkMercy #MercyIsWeakestHealer

[FFirebrandd-1844]

According to your profile, you’re on XBox, so that’s entirely possible.

[Silentstrike-1319]

So, you remember how I was talking about why Blizzard refuses to do reverts for events to keep the flames on a low kindling? Yeah, this is why… these types of posts would EXPLODE during and after Archives if Mercy had Mass Res for the event.

Mercy players have been trying for 2 years. I think it might just be time to accept Mercy 2.0 and move on. They’re already toying with her kit and damage boost as we speak. That doesn’t mean this stuff will make it live, but they are trying to tweak her kit already without reworking.

[Megadodo-11847]

Right, but from a psychology point of view, it is almost perfectly designed to tick off people.

Having you almost achieve something, and not quite get there is a little annoying.

Having you ACTUALLY achieve something, and someone come along an break it, is MUCH more annoying, even if you end up in the same place after it.

It is like Mei’s Freeze.

It doesn’t matter from a game point of view how you died.

But being frozen and THEN killed is far more annoying to people than just getting right clicked by her.

Some annoyance in a game is ok, but, rez really ticked off a lot of players. It wasn’t the “hide” part of hide and rez they really hated.

Because someone on the enemy team choosing to make the fight 5v6 is all good from your point of view.

But having ALL of that fight reverted? oh man, they hated it.

I dont think everyone looks at it in that fashion

After all, if one’s own team wants to have the advantage of rez available, they can have it as well

[GoldenPants-23233]

Mercy is not in a bad spot,

Fixed it for you.

On a serious note, she is balanced, there are other heroes that are way more off than Mercy. Like Moira, who is barely seen at all at high ELO especially compared to Mercy.

Also write in a thread that already exists about this.

[PezLex-1235]

Oh man, this thread went to crap while I napped.

Edit: NVM this is a mercy thread, to be expected. Lol

[FFirebrandd-1844]

@Pacifist-21712

Alright, let’s put it this way;

You can’t balance the game around subjective human opinions . You have to balance it around global statistics to see where attention is needed and where definitely isn’t.

You’re comparing the rules of a game to music here.

Unless you have a proof that Mercy is lacking in some aspect, you won’t get a rework.

Except you absolutely need to design your game around subjective human opinions because otherwise NO ONE WILL PLAY YOUR GAME.

Street Fighter 1 was perfectly balanced. Pretty sure most people don’t play it anymore and the dev team has added all sorts of stuff to later iterations of the game to purposefully break their perfect balance to make it more fun.

@Pacifist-21712

Music has no rules, games do.

Designing games has exactly 2 rules and there’s some debate on the 2nd. They need to be engaging. They need to have a concrete or implied failure state (and some games don’t even have that). That’s it.

@Pacifist-21712

The game was intended to play with 1 support/1 tank/4 damage compositions. With this, we can safely assume that Mercy was intended to be able to solo heal.

That’s false. Jeff at least was expecting people to step away from 2-2-2 far more often than they are, but he weren’t expecting hard line 1-4-1 like you seem to indicate.
Source: Why nobody likes 3-4 DPS (Jeff Replied) - #45 by JeffreyKaplan

@Pacifist-21712

Regarding the flying and AoE effects… Mercy is the only support hero without any AoE/multitarget effects, to compensate for that, something needed to be added. And it’s actually quite useful. Much more useful than a more powerful single target beam would be.

I would much MUCH rather have a single super beam. I prefer Coalescence to Valkyrie for exactly that reason.

@Pacifist-21712

Then, like… play something else?
Baptiste just got released, go try him out!

I have been for the most part. Warframe, Minecraft, Pokemon Crystal, Runescape. All wonderful games that… y’know haven’t screwed over part of their player base.

Oh did you mean other Overwatch Heroes? Firstly… no other hero in the game focuses as much as raw decision making as Mercy 1.0 did. The closest I’ve found is Brigitte, who I do enjoy but just read my other problem… Secondly, Blizzard has shown zero respect for their previous designs. Why on earth would I take the time to find another hero I enjoy when they ALSO might get essentially removed from the game?

[Lias-11313]

Except you absolutely need to design your game around subjective human opinions because otherwise NO ONE WILL PLAY YOUR GAME.

Why not balance around both

Let’s see Mercy is balanaced

There is a sizeable amount of people playing Mercy

yup seems like they did a good job

[Pacifist-21712]

Except you absolutely need to design your game around subjective human opinions because otherwise NO ONE WILL PLAY YOUR GAME.

Aren’t we talking about game balance here?

Game balance =/= Game design

Designing games has exactly 2 rules and there’s some debate on the 2nd. They need to be engaging. They need to have a concrete or implied failure state (and some games don’t even have that). That’s it.

You as a game designer create the rules when coming up with a game concept. What rules do you create when you make music? None.

Comparing music to games makes no sense. Stop with it, thank you.

That’s false. Jeff at least was expecting people to step away from 2-2-2 far more often than they are, but he weren’t expecting hard line 1-4-1 like you seem to indicate.

Then tell me what were they trying to do with just 4 supports, 5 tanks and 12 damage dealers? As if that wasn’t an obvious indication.

I would much MUCH rather have a single super beam. I prefer Coalescence to Valkyrie for exactly that reason.

You’d quickly see how bad it is.

Oh did you mean other Overwatch Heroes? Firstly… no other hero in the game focuses as much as raw decision making as Mercy 1.0 did. The closest I’ve found is Brigitte, who I do enjoy but just read my other problem… Secondly, Blizzard has shown zero respect for their previous designs. Why on earth would I take the time to find another hero I enjoy when they ALSO might get essentially removed from the game?

Brigitte, ey? I hope you see where the problems with Brig were (in other words, I hope you know why they nerfed her as much as they did).

[Pim-21483]

“Just because a hero is in the meta doens’t mean it need nerfs”

[Constantine-12643]

Bless you for still fighting the fight. More than I can say, after 2 years of them doing nothing about their screwup with mercy has led me to give up. They clearly don’t care what the players have to say.

[Megadodo-11847]

their screwup with mercy

Not everyone sees the removal of mass rez from the game as a screwup

I don’t, for example

[Constantine-12643]

Jesus you again. It’s almost like you keep forgetting that we will never agree despite us doing this same discussion over and over and over again.

[Pacifist-21712]

Jesus you again. It’s almost like you keep forgetting that we will never agree despite us doing this same discussion over and over and over again.

“i DoNt HaVe FuN aNyMoRe” is not a viable argument to rework Mercy.

She’s balanced and many people still find her fun.

Also, have you noticed how these forums are the only platform where this topic is discussed in such quantity?

[Matsy-21502]

Come back when we have statistical data that shows she isn’t balanced.
Cleanse on her staff - OP (while taking into account the rest of her kit)
Mass Res - No, it doesn’t really matter how you try to twist it.
60 HPS - her healing is fine as it is

[Megadodo-11847]

Jesus you again. It’s almost like you keep forgetting that we will never agree despite us doing this same discussion over and over and over again.

With apologies, I dont specifically recall having a previous conversation with you; but regardless, when one posts on a public forum, one implicitly invites response from the public

I intend no offense, just replying to the statement made

[Constantine-12643]

She’s garbage. It’s almost like a main healer with 50hp/s is worthless when moira and ana heal far more and can both multiheal vs mercies single beam. It’s almost like she got a ton of nerfs because the rework was inherently flawed.
It’s almost like changing her needlesly even though she was an f tier pick was a bad idea that should have been obvious when she suddenly jumped to s tier.

[Megadodo-11847]

Jesus you again. It’s almost like you keep forgetting that we will never agree despite us doing this same discussion over and over and over again.

“i DoNt HaVe FuN aNyMoRe” is not a viable argument to rework Mercy.

She’s balanced and many people still find her fun.

agreed…given that there are over 2 dozen other heroes to choose from, when a player no longer finds character A to be fun, its time to look at the other characters, or even at other games if none of those seem fun either

[Pacifist-21712]

She’s garbage. It’s almost like a main healer with 50hp/s is worthless when moira and ana heal far more and can both multiheal vs mercies single beam. It’s almost like she got a ton of nerfs because the rework was inherently flawed.
It’s almost like changing her needlesly even though she was an f tier pick was a bad idea that should have been obvious when she suddenly jumped to s tier.

Statistically, she isn’t.
In the hands of a capable player, she isn’t either. (Not that your, literally low plat, status has to do anything with this statement)

[Megadodo-11847]

It’s almost like changing her needlesly even though she was an f tier pick was a bad idea that should have been obvious when she suddenly jumped to s tier.

she wasn’t changed needlessly tho - the devs observed unwanted/undesirable behavior in the game that was due to mass rez, and so they removed mass rez

given the desire to remove the unwanted behavior from the game, removing mass rez was a good idea

[FFirebrandd-1844]

@Pacifist-21712

Aren’t we talking about game balance here?

Game balance =/= Game design

Game Balance is part of Game Design, so both. Game Balance is heavily dependent on what sort of Game you are trying to make. Some require no balance at all. Some require a little. Some require quite a bit. Even when you have similar games you can end up with wildly different kinds of balancing depending on who’s doing it. Parody comic illustrating the point: https://www.nerfnow.com/comic/737/comments

@Pacifist-21712

Then tell me what were they trying to do with just 4 supports , 5 tanks and 12 damage dealers ? As if that wasn’t an obvious indication.

Ahem… 5 tanks, 6 offense, 6 defense, 4 supports. That looks far closer, doesn’t it?

@Pacifist-21712

You’d quickly see how bad it is.

Seeing as one super beam would give me more agency during the match… I’d still take it in a heart beat.

@Pacifist-21712

Brigitte, ey? I hope you see where the problems with Brig were (in other words, I hope you know why they nerfed her as much as they did).

Indeed I do. Due to how the objectives work, the meta is defined by whichever support is best able to not die and is able to bail out their teammates. That’s been Brigitte for the last several months and people are whining about it. Blizzard doesn’t understand that though so they’ve been doing what they usually do and have been swinging the nerf bat around randomly.