I’m pretty sure most here don’t understand breakpoints or have done any theoretical math on OW.
This is like saying a good Brigitte doesn’t rely on her shield and bash. Try playing her without using those.
He counters hypermobile heroes because he could stop and kill them. Why are non-mobile heroes running into him? He doesn’t have mobility.
Correction for clearity? Sure, if someone thinks that’s a misquoting, they can bother themselves to click the arrow to your original post, which is just above mine.
Again, I don’t want to be so blunt about a problematic statement, but clearly i should, so lemme say it, that original quote of yours imo is problematic that it needs correction.
Are we clear? Or do we need to go into full technicality and have an argument for days while your tone sounds like u don’t want any of it?
You deem it problematic so it’s your job to change my words? That’s very silly.
I don’t see it to be a problem
IMO he needed to be toned down one way or another. I imagine that Ashe might be looked at next since she was starting to approach McCree levels of usage in OWL, and she’s yielding pretty crazy results starting at Diamond.
His pistol’s fire rate and damage meant he can do significant damage to other heroes that are hypermobile outside of his stun. I also don’t like the, “the enemy is just bad, then” because that implies that you’re just being a potato and not trying to get them in your range, either. Which isn’t the case; you’re trying to kill them. You will do what you can to get them in your range without putting yourself in inevitable danger.
None of that changes what I said about him decimating non-mobile heroes, either.
IMO this was a light nerf and he wasn’t the only one, so it’s not like he was targeted specifically by it. They could have gone the route of nerfing his fire rate, but they chose the duration on stun.
And IMO they need to fix that ability so it’s consistent. It misses when you’re right next to him, and sometimes it hits you from Narnia. For an ability that helps confirm kills, it doesn’t work consistently on either end, and it’s awkward.
Again, you are using your opinion and want me to accept, and I don’t, so using a correction is a way of saying u have it right in 1 way and wrong in another. I can use my opinion to counter yours, since u put it in the forums. U have 0 right to say “I don’t see it to be a problem” to just silence me from any attempt to counterargue it.
Also, u really want me to just flipping say u are just getting triggered out of “misuse” of your words even after I put an edit to indicate it’s not original post? LIke is this a valid point that helps your quote to be more true in anyway? No it does not.
Keep complaining about the method of counteragument even when it’s being edited as u complained about doesn’t help u prove your point being more right in anyways, it only makes u look like u don’t have a counterarguement and have to focus on technicality.
Briggs shield has a shorter duration but it is more for interrupting which Mcree can also do.
I I said that good McCree don’t rely on the full duration to get the kill they need.
Brig’s shield also doesn’t set up confirmed kills. Not even on Tracer anymore. You can’t initiate with it.
And it’s also a self-protecting shield and they’re also vastly different kits that have nothing in common.
Comparing them is…awkward. O_o
You’re free to discuss why you don’t agree like I have. Like I said, a good Mcree doesn’t rely on the full duration of the flash to do what they need to do.
It’s an overall nerf but more of a nerf to McCree with wonky aim.
Am I wrong with that logic?
It sounds like for the most part that Reaper and Mei will be getting away more often. Honestly, that’s fine since that’s supposed to be their optimal range of engagement anyways, countering those two should happen before flashbang range.
Of course, this doesn’t mean they get out for free of course. They still have to expend vital cooldowns to survive, and Mei especially is still in the thick of it.
They do, especially against genji, doomfist, reaper, mei and hamster and potentially winston and sombra. Even heroes like tracer and ana have ways of preventing a hs after flash should they react fast enough, not to mention u flashing from a mobile situation. The lost of double hs timing makes them completely able to escape or self-heal when u are forced in an 1v1 situations, regardless of your aim, because no matter how good your aim you cannot make the character shoot faster than he is designed to.
The thing to compensate, I’d say, is removing stun model animation for heroes, especially for the head hitbox. This only helps good mccrees and hitbox consistency, btw.
Mccree with wonky aim won’t even try to double hs from my own experience against them. It only makes his matchup way way worse for good players, by breaking a breakpoint that should either be reworked or adjusted, not hard deleted.
The most part of what it does is to make one of the last non-mobile dps that can deal with flankers/mobile heroes in a very specific range lose his upperhand. Specially when fth shares primary fire interval duration and therefore u cannot follow up a hs w/ fth as fast as possible.
What?!!
Yesterday mccre was carryng almost all matchs on my matchs on high diamond.
she’s a Mercy main she has no clue about how timings/breakpoints etc work.
Genji and Doom are among the easiest heroes in the game to play they are very braindead actually and deflecting after Flash is not a skillful interaction. You’re not outplaying anyone either.
Genji was supposed to be scared of McCree, now he will feast. Time for average Genji mains to shine.
you realize that after this nerf, Soldier is literally a better pick than McCree? Including vs heroes McCree is meant to have a STRONG matchup against such as Genji and Doomfist.
If you don’t see the problem… probably you’re gold or so where people are so bad mechanically that the game is about “hitting shots”.
2bh, most of my mercy main friends choose to play mercy, they all have hidden talents that can best me as a flex main w/ a huge margin.
So, I’d say that’s a huge outlier here instead of we stereotyping mercy mains.
you’re right. I should have written “forum Mercy main”, the super opinionated kind that gets offended by differing opinions, opens 10 “buff Mercy” threads a day and talks without a clue of facts presented.
The fact here being that the nerf DRASTICALLY changed a couple matchups that should be McCree-sided such as vs Doom and vs Genji into now those 2 flankers holding the advantage.
To a lesser degree, matchups vs Tracer, Hammond, Ana, Soldier and Roadhog were also influenced.
I can’t be bothered to post numbers really as after hopping into the game and playing for 2 hours it was clear to me that something just felt off. You lads feel free to theorycraft the math and do 1v1s vs the best Doomfist player in your friendlist, you’ll eventually realize I’m right.
If McCree is not allowed to be an anti-flanker, you have to wonder what he’s allowed to be good against particularly when you compare him vs the likes of Tracer, Ashe and (especially) Soldier.
As always though forums know it better. Even though they’re a bunch of gold players lecturing a mid-masters Tracer/McCree main, I should probably just hit more shots 4Head.
I mean, not exactly at that rank myself either, but i constantly play against those of similar ranks due to mmr in other places. First hand experience and some simple conjesturing would suffice 
Ya hes back to one shot per flashbang but the problem is now you have to be nearly twice as fast to get the headshot. It feels awful to play with unless your some GM twitch shooter. Fire rate buff had no affect on how fast you had to be with the first shot. The stun duration nerf encourages flash fan now.
Actual statistics, ever since his nerfs, he has been played and been in top 1-3rd lowest winrates in all ranks, that is really bad.
flash fan also doesn’t work vs a Genji holding down E or a Doomfist holding shift you simply don’t fire enough bullets to kill them before they get to use their evasive abilities (I’m assuming you stun an initially full HP target since in high elo nobody who is sane takes any 1v1 while not at full HP unless he’s resetting).
When you’re trying to insult Mercy players for asking buffs to their hero who is the least picked support in OWL this entire season and has been bottom of the barrel in GM until hero bans forced her to be played, yet you’re complaining about a nerf to Mcree who has been arguably the best/most meta DPS in the game since 2-2-2 after his fire rate/ult/FtH buffs and has been banned on cooldown as a result of his pickrate being so insanely high.
And complaining about Genji of all heroes. lol.
All of my GM/top500 Mcree main friends want him nerfed even more. They all want the fire rate buff reverted to make him more skillful again. They say he’s too easy/too much value for any bad Mcree now. They had this convo literally yesterday on stream.
Only nerf I know of is the flash bang nerf that was on experiment. I’m guessing maybe that went live. Not entirely sure.
If so, I don’t really care. Flash was my least favorite part of his kit. I’d rather that be nerfed than something else.