Mass Res Will Return | 10 Reasons Why


#700

“We have no plans to revert Mercy”

I’m going to take that as a no. Revert as in going back to the time before the rework, mind you.

Plans can change, but honestly this is a very solid piece of information to go by and nothing suggests they would’ve changed their mind. If anything, the repeated iterations of the rework suggest they are adamant about their decision of not bringing mass resurrect back.


#701

I hope you know that bringing back mass Res by itself is not a revert.


#702

Ultimates are meant to have a scaling value. You theoretically “could” get a 6k from a Tracer bomb, but that’s not the purpose of it. It’s meant for single picks. Mercy Mass res was meant to fill in the gaps left by your team. Unfortunately, due to the old design, you could theoretically get a 4-6k basically every time as long as your team died on the point, which is not hard to set up. This led to a lot of situations where Mercy simply would not use the resurrect in a situation where getting 1-2 resurrects would win the fight. This is a bad design. If there was a cap to how many people were resurrected, which would lower the range of value, that would be less of an issue.

As for saving ultimates, it’s not an issue of saving itself, it’s an issue of how much ult charge is traded for another. Even if it’s as simple as Grav + Dragon or Nano + Blade, if you mass resurrected that, you undo two entire ultimates with one action that has no real counterplay outside of killing mercy before she can even come into view. The trade is not equivalent, unlike Zen trans, which can be anti-naded or booped away.


#703

Firstly, there is no official purpose of Tracer’s bomb. All you did was make up a purpose. Secondly, you can’t get a 6k with mass Res. That is impossible. This goes to show how much you know about the topic at hand.

Nope. It isn’t encouraged by the ultimate like I said. It isn’t a design issue. It’s a player issue. Besides, making hero changes based on bad players is not good, at all.

This isn’t an issue. All 1-6 ultimates follow this pattern. If it was an issue, all 1-6 ultimates would get removed.

This is a common argument to which I’ll respond with, “Why didn’t you kill the Mercy with the 2 ults?”

It has counterplay. People just don’t bother to counter it.

Zen’s ultimate is more powerful than Res so that’s understandable but like I said, countering it is not an issue. Even if it is, what’s stopping them from bringing back old Mercy’s Cast time?


#704

You need to think about it from a design standpoint though, Tracer bomb is literally a bomb that sticks to one entity. Tracer is a flanker who isolates targets. While you “can” use it for more mass kills, say to support a Grav, the normal purpose is for single target kills.

Combining these two points into one, the ultimate does not support it, but the game itself does. The high of PoTG is a commonly cited reason among Mercy mains for mass resurrect, as well as the feeling of being “impactful.” There is impact, but not in the way that is good game design. Resurrect is easily charged up as Mercy due to her perpetually healing or boosting someone at all times. It is not hard to generate. If you compare this to something like Lucio ultimate, or Supercharger, the difference is night and day. Meanwhile, while the fact that something like a D.Va bomb or a High Noon “can” kill someone, that line of thinking is flawed. D.Va bomb is easily nullified by any shield tank or a map with walls. High Noon, Riptire, etc. all leave the characters very open to being killed. Meanwhile, Mass Resurrect can be done with no penalty because either it goes off and you get the resurrects or you die and keep it for next team fight. If the fight is near your spawn it’s even easier to pull it off since you can go out one of the other doors. Regardless of what you think of Valkyrie the reason why it is a better designed ultimate is because there’s actual counterplay to it. You can stun Mercy, actually kill her (since she isn’t invulnerable), and most importantly, the ultimate can actually fail to get value. You can completely blow every other ultimate in the game and get nothing out of it, but if you resurrect, you are always receiving value. The only other ultimates that arguably have this functionality are Lucio ult due to receiving his own shields that disappear very quickly (note he can still lose the ult due to death), Brig with her armour (that can also be stopped by killing her), and Zen, who does gain true invincibility but potentially only for himself. Every single ult in the game outside of Mass Resurrect and arguably Transcendence has a way to fail.

Where is Mercy in the team fight to kill with the ultimates if Mercy is not with the team? You can’t kill what isn’t there.

What is the actual counterplay? Mercy is invulnerable, you cannot stun her out of it when she starts. The only way you could stop it was killing or stunning her before she got into the radius, which is not easy or even feasible on certain maps, especially since it let you resurrect people out of view.

As for cast time, you’re arguing for a nerf to your own character. Cast time does not matter if you cannot die during the course of the ultimate. You would need to remove the i-frames to make mass resurrect even come close to balanced, as well as add proper LoS checks.


#705

That’s a good way to use it. That doesn’t mean using it for mass kills isn’t its purpose as well.

What is the “The High of the POTG”? Asking because this is the first time I’ve ever heard of this.

And what exactly is stopping Blizz from increasing her charge rate? Idk, man. You keep saying bad design when these supposed bad design aspects can be fixed with number tweaks.

But just because you pull the res of, doesn’t mean it’s a success. It’s success it entirely dependant on the situation. Also, again, you keep saying bad design but these bad design aspects can be fixed with tweaks.

It’s easier to pull of but that doesn’t make a difference. It’s success is still dependant on the situation.

Because it doesn’t offer anything worth-while. It is by far the worst designed ultimate amongst the supports. It was removed 3 years ago for a reason. :confused:

You think mass Res can’t fail to get value? Well… I found the issue.

Hiding counters itself.

Considering how predictable her GA movement is, it really is feasible. You’re sounding a bit hyperbolic tbh. Also, again, unlike other ultimates, you don’t even need to use specific counters to counter the ultimate. All her ult does is reset a fight that you’ve already lost.

For balance.

What? If you have a cast time, you’re giving the opposing team a chance to counter the ultimate.

I thought you would know but I’m one of the main people that propose these changes. Invulnerability needs to go and she needs to get LoS checks.

I thought you’d see me in some Mercy threads. Specifically, this one:


#706

I really liked Mercy 1.0. So I hope they do bring it back.


#707

it’s not an opinion, the devs said it’s never coming back.


#708

They’ve never said that mass Res isn’t coming back though.


#709

They already said is not coming back because it was unhealthy for the game, you are just wasting your time. If you think Mercy is not ok for whatever reason, focus on ideas on fixing her now or new potential ideas to make her better.


#710

Resurrection needs to go away completely.


#711

Read Number 7 and the previous posts, I’ve explained this many times in this thread, so I won’t repeat it here. Many thanks for sharing your opinions though!

I disagree completely, but hey! You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. We’ll have to agree to disagree there. :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:


#712

Don’t think I’ve asked you in a different thread so I’ll ask you here.

What would you do if Blizzard said
“Mass Res in any form is not coming back, please stop asking” add in “we will look at Mercy in the future after other heroes are looked at” if you want.
Just curious :stuck_out_tongue:


#713

When I speak about purpose I tend to speak about the typical usage case. Of course there are other ways to use ultimates but I usually cite what is closest to the developer intention.

The “High of PoTG” is the sensation caused by getting an exceptional amount of on-fire or a long sequence of kills/actions. You ever see a Genji try and 1v4 a team with his blade? It’s because they’re chasing that. The reason why people try and do things like that is because if they somehow manage to pull it off, they can say they carried or otherwise. Unfortunately, this tends to have a low success percentage in most cases.

That could be another proposed change, but if that was the case, it would have to be potentially higher than Lucio’s due to how tide-turning that can be.

As for what is defined as “success” there is two elements to this. Did you finish the casting animation, and did you actually use this to your advantage? You can finish the animation for Visor for example, but it doesn’t matter if you get denied by the shield. With Mercy, the only goal is to get in range and press the button, then there’s nothing the enemy can do (barring a change to the design). If you resurrect even two people, the ultimate is a success. The problem with the old ultimate was due to how much potential it had, people wanted to be “more successful.” Not to say that this isn’t an issue with other ultimates, but with Mercy the issue was prevalent due to the conditions needed to get maximum value out of it.

I would argue that the design is not bad. Uninspired, sure. But the actual utility of being able to damage boost your entire team for 20 seconds is scary. It’s not even like Supercharger where it can be broken in mere seconds, or is made pointless if your team goes out of sight, since Mercy can move to meet them in relatively safety in the sky.

As for failing to get value, it gets value in every situation it would go off. It can get “less”, but not “no value.” Think about shatter, if shatter misses, literally nothing happens. Same with Tracer stick, Grav, Blade, etc. Even Area of Denials like Mei, Hammond, and soon Torbjorn can fail due to either deflect, defense matrix, dying during the animation, or simply not being in the area. The only criteria for success for an ultimate is “doing what the ability is meant to do.” If Mercy resurrects even one person, she has succeeded in doing her job. It might not have been good, but she did it. And due to the nature of the invulnerability it had, that’s why it was frustrating to play against.

The problem with you saying that it “just resets the fight” is that this is simply not true. You don’t get refunded the ults you expended, while the enemy has all of theirs, as well as their ammo refilled. Simply put, it severely punishes using more than one ultimate to get kills due to how easy reversion is.

As for you, I don’t go on the forums a large amount. So I was not aware of you, or your proposed changes. I do think that the ultimate could potentially be worked out, but it would require changes that you listed, mainly being the LoS and lack of invincibility. The reason why Mercy res as an ability is not as offensive in its current state is due to the reasonable counterplay that can happen. There is a significant risk to Mercy upon casting. The ability would need to make Mercy incredibly vulnerable and have a significant charge and cast time, due to the game state changing nature. From a personal standpoint though, I don’t think it would be very enjoyable.

From my own personal standpoint, for about my first 40 hours playing Overwatch I played nothing but Mercy at all. I was not particularly good at FPS games, having not played a PC shooter at all prior to this one. So I valued that Mercy was designed as an easily accessible character that could provide value. The issue with this is that typically, when a character is designed to be easy pick up, they should plateau in value. Events like Moth meta should never happen because it discourages usage of more difficult to use characters with mechanics that provide varied gameplay. The reason I prefer Valkyrie is that from a balance perspective, it makes more sense and provides significantly more counterplay and gameplay style variety. In Valk, you can DPS, you can boost, you can heal, you can mix those things together. Even if it’s only an extension of her kit, it still adds a “superman” factor that resurrect simply does not. Resurrect felt very sloppy and counter to the premise of teamplay, as well as narrow in gameplay style. It was hard to tell the difference between one Mercy player to another at a higher level due to lack of that variety.

Do I think Mercy is perfect in her current state? Not at all. But I think that reimplementation of an ability that not only narrows playstyle but also struggles to keep the balance for the ult economy is bad for the game as a whole. I would rather they give Mercy another option and promote more individuality from Mercy player to Mercy player.


#714

You keep asking in hypotheticals. I could easily say in return
“What would do/say if they DID implement Mass Res back into the game?”


#715

They won’t say this part. But to answer your question, I’d probably ask for a reason and if the reason is good enough, yeah, I’ll stop asking and just play a different game. Besides, Overwatch has gotten pretty stale since the Mercy rework.


#716

I’ll ask them if they remember when they said that Team Deathmatch “would never be a game mode due to the objective based gameplay that Overwatch revolves around” and with it being introduced against their word later on, ask them how in this instance, we should believe that what they say is in fact set in stone? :blush:

As far as Blizzard is concerned, there is never a “never”, and actions speak louder than words.


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:


We need a statement on mass rez
#717

So the threads would continue? unless Blizzard added it back?
Lets just assume their word was final on the matter? :stuck_out_tongue: (despite previous claims by them) just for arguement’s sake ^^
@Dva - thanks for the answer :slight_smile:


#718

I did read it, but it’s not remotely the same thing. The heal reduction is an adjustment, but the impact that mass rez had was much more impactful and was creating an unhealthy gameplay that was hated by almost everyone. Even single rez has proven difficult to balance, thinking that mass rez is coming back in any form is delusional with all due respect, it’s like asking for old FtH back for McCree which was broken as f*ck and i’m a McCree main saying it, but asking for it to come back would be just nonesense tbh.


#719

Did someone say D.Va

Everyone leave her alone she’s been through enough