Mass Res Will Return | 10 Reasons Why


#1197

it’s funny how I keep seeing people like “hard won victory with 3-4 ults was undone by mass rez” like if you needed that many ults to win you’re probably not that good.

fun fact one time I was in a game defending on kings row at the end. I saw a Hanzo flanking left so I knew he had his ult. so I stepped off to the right side by the health pack (literally i was still in sight of my team and attached to someone until the ults went off) so he would have to either solo ult me or go for my team. He went for my team. and so did the soldier and the Genji. and just for kicks after everything was dead the McCree ulted too and killed nothing. and they all rushed forward thinking they had won and I flew out (literally 10 feet I was barely hiding) and rezzed. there was nothing skilful about throwing out 4 dps ults mindlessly into the opposing team. i was smart enough to know it was all coming and back away from the majority of my team. I ulted and rezzed 4. if McCree had been smart enough to save his ult he could have killed everyone again (with the exception of zarya because bubble) and they would have won. but they were all cocky and when they rushed forward without thinking of the mercy they all got into prime graving range.

again if you need 4 ults to win a fight your team probably sucks and doesn’t deserve to win. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

edit: correction. I had my pistol out shooting where the Hanzo was to try and draw my teams attention to where he was. but I was still really close to my team.


#1198

What world are you living in? Almost all the people suggesting mass Res to return are advocating for certain balance changes like e.g: a cast time.


#1199

you sir, are truly great. I agree with you. Although a few statistics would be good. Thanks!


#1200

Yeah, it was such a s&*^ move they did, but Im glad Kojima left that company and is developing Death Stranding.

You can check out Visage, a game thats still in development that has a lot of PT inspiration poured into it if youre interested.


#1201

they ALSO havnt balanced her current self. if they wont bring it back as ult her healing output should just be imcreased via abilities and her ultimate


#1202

Thanks! I would suggest giving Titanium’s thread a look. They go into detail with sources, research, etc. as to why Mercy’s current state is a problem. They also can explain it a lot better than I ever could :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:


#1203

I thought about this some more and I think I found another way to describe this.

I don’t want to be a flying, weaker Orisa Drum for damage boost or healing. I want to do something more than what I already do throughout the game. I already GA fine, I already heal and boost appropriately, I already can shoot, I already know how to juggle my beams between people. What I do throughout the game already is more challenging and exciting than Valkyrie because it is one beam that I have to juggle and use my own skill, whereas Valkyrie takes all that away from me. I want to earn something that will matter and be fun and interesting and engaging. It doesn’t have to be the most impactful thing on the planet, it could be a nice tempo ult for all I care, but I want to have something that lets me do something different than what I already do, I want something that makes it feel worth it to earn. Flying can be fun, but flying with nothing to do because everything else does what you do, for you.

This is why a lot of people look back on Mass Resurrect. It was the different part of her kit, it could be impactful, it was that different moment in her kit that gave her a chance to shine. It may have lost some value at higher levels but it was not as if she wasn’t present genuinely at higher ranks. People made Mercy work up there and those that could not moved on and that’s okay. The only reason it isn’t okay is because we don’t have enough characters to spread out a roster so pick rates don’t look as balanced as the balancing team feels like it should be.


#1204

I feel like the devs have accidentally but Mercy in this box she cannot escape from all because they have admitted that Rez is core to her gameplay. Because of that small stated (patchnotes September 19th, 2017) she will NEVER loose Rez.

While I don’t think Rez is entirely out of place in a game like OW, cause Rein, Symm, DF, Briggitte, Moira are all non-FPS heroes, or non-FPS abilities should fit in.

That being said…makes me wonder if OW did have a down then dead system. Would something like Mass Rez (or Revive in this case) be a controversial?


#1205

Unpopular opinion, mass rez sucked. It was horrible to barely win a team fight, only for Mercy to block you and deny everything you did. In turn, Mercy’s would hide and escape and, combined with her kit, it made her near impossible to stop. So many times would a Mercy fly away mid fight, only to quickly regen, then fly back in and rez most of the enemy team.

Additionally, you had to kill a Mercy third in a fight, not first. If you killed her first, there is a high risk of her respawning in time to rez her whole team. It was infuriating and never fun unless you were on the receiving end. I hope it stays dead

Mod Edit: Removed inappropriate language.


#1206

Actually, Genji and Tracer wee hated even more to the point that a bug on the PTR was blamed on them and for a change to Brigitte’s flail


#1207

I don’t recall them being called derogatory names like “cultists” or a “hive mind” though, nor were they witch-hunted on various social media sites with literal subreddits created specifically to mock them. I think that is a lot worse than blaming someone for a few bugs in the game, but we can of course just agree to disagree on it :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:


#1208

This seems like a you problem. Is it the Mercy’s first that you barely won the fight?

Escaping is fine and hiding counters itself.

Hyperbole.

Lol, this is not an issue at all. That’s called skill. You don’t remove things because they are effective when used skilfully. Especially, when we’re talking about a low-skill hero like Mercy.

Actually, there is only one fight unless the Mercy hides and gets a 5 man res. And in that case, it’s only a 2nd fight. Not a third fight.

Then stagger deaths? After the Mercy dies, you can control the fights outcome however much as you want as long as you’re just not bad.

What ultimate, when pulled of successfully, isn’t unfun to play against?


#1210

That is objectively false. You disagreeing doesn’t change that.


#1213

Mass Res will never return for the simple reason that the devs would have to actually acknowledge that they made a mistake and they are too far up they‘re own cheeks to do that.


#1214

I think another issue is, the respawns are too quick and consistent for a down-dead system.
But it is slow enough to allow for resurrection. But people think of it in too literal of a sense that “They were dead and now they are back and everything I did was undone, completely reversed.” but like, they still keep their kills and realistically it’s just a spawn time skipper that puts you in the same danger as you were in moments ago.

I think by changing the name to Revival would change people’s perspectives a little bit.


#1215

It wont return because there is no need for it. They can simply buff other aspects of her kit if she is under powered. If you like mass rezz. thats a different story and at best is a subjective better solution FOR YOU. If someone dosent like the hero or the way he functions he can play a different one. Mercy can fill a gap in the game with some minimal tweeks from where she is now.


#1218

They can buff other aspects of her kit all they want but they won’t find a middle ground.
Valkyrie as it stands is underwhelming, removes her weaknesses and undermines everything that you need to learn to play Mercy.
Resurrect, is too strong to be on a cool down ability slot. If an E ability needs ultimate level punishments just to be allowed to use it, then it isn’t balanced. You move as slow as Mcree and have a fairly long cast time to get one person up.

Let’s use Mcree as an example.
Imagine if they moved high noon to an E and removed flash bang for it but you only get to kill one person. Then at first they let you just have the kill without the charge or movement punishment, etc. And during ult everything you did was better. So the roll more frequent and goes further, fan the hammer does more damage and you have infinite ammo for it, your primary fire has bouncing bullets and even the E-Noon was better and it let you kill multiple people in a short span of time.

Then the roll just goes further, fan the hammer doesn’t do as much damage anymore, you stop being allowed to E-Noon multiple people because they take extra charges away. You only get two. Then you only get one charge. Then you get slowed again and the charge up comes back but for one single kill. Then they decide to nerf your base damage so you aren’t securing as many kills as before normally and the E-Noon is now harder to use.

At first the character is made too easy, too successful and undermines everything you learned as that character. Then it is nerfed and nerfed and nerfed, but because the ability that they want balanced isn’t doing it even though it already feels crappy to use for a small but powerful reward because of the impact it has on the pacing of the game, they resort to other methods, they resort to the base kit that has always been in a reasonable state since they first buffed it and it ends up killing the character because it ended up nerfing pretty much everything.

The healing nerf:
Makes it take longer to heal people, less time for damage boost, less time for rez. People take damage during rez or damage boost, try to heal them but it is futile because in most cases if you started healing them under half health, they are dead. Healing nerf increased the time it takes to get an underwhelming ultimate, that literally does everything that you know how to do and want to do, for you. The healing nerf, nerfs valkyrie and results in the same problems that persist in the base kit but still falsely pad healing numbers for people who don’t know how to prioritize.

Mercy is not in a good place and has not been since the rework.
All the things set out to make her “more engaging”, made her less so. Surely they knew this before, because they removed Valkyrie and Stationary Rez during Alpha. For good reason, the level of stalling E-Rez does by preventing a push from beginning, all the skill Valkyrie takes away from you. It was like they wanted to make her impossible to fail with but that was far too strong.

Mercy’s rework/Alpha Revert turned the game into the unhealthiest it has ever been.

Before the rework, so season 4.
Omnic Meta stated that Mercy’s pick rate was only slightly higher then most other supports. This partly can be attributed to her fairly large community and could have been adjusted by giving her some balance changes whilst also, Moira had not been released to add competition to the selection pool.
Omnic Meta showed after the rework that she had a near 100% and did have one in GM.

But yeah, this Mercy is better for the game, for sure.


#1219

Res is too strong to be on a cd, no tweaking will ever change that as we’ve seen so far. It only ruins the character. Two solutions: make res an ultimate again, more powerful than it is now ofc. Yes I would prefer mass res. It was never too strong. Second solution: remove res completely, give her smth else and focus on her healing output.


#1220

I agree with rez on a ultimate. Of course the ultimate will need tweaking, but it will be as it should be


#1221

The thing is the game evolved from that point when mercy had mass rez. what wasnt considered op then maybe will be now. She really is not in a horrible state and is for sure not considered a trow pick, she maybe under powered now compared to anas overall kit. But she still completes the role of a pocket healer for certain characters that benefit from her being on the team. Playing with mass rez. wont solve her problems one bit, it can only make it oppressive to play against or under powered in general. Because OW from 8 seasons ago is waaaay different from what it is now. A lack from evolving in gameplay and mechanics of a character bring never ending back and fort changes that simply dont benefit anyone…