Losers queue is real

General Discussion
42

Yeah , I tested this way back in OW1 years ago, after about 5-10 lost games you will literally get a team that can 4v5 with spawn camping if you perform bad enough in previous games. The worse you play in previous games the harder the stomp will be after the game flags you for a win and the worse you do the less games it requires to trigger it. If you loose that game because i don’t know you are dancing the path to ban is couple games at most because game is almost 100% sure you will win and if you loose the system looks closer at your account.

Now in OW2 something happened with old accounts where the game takes you as the “carry” potential, for around 140 games last and this season there was 0 where my teams cumulated rank was higher than enemy. On my alts its normal completely.

1 Like
43

We aggree on this.
At least put them in silver if not outright bronze.

This… is usually asking for more than can be delivered… at least in gold.

44

Sometimes it feels that it goes up too much.
Whenever i have a nice close match and somehow win that, i lose 2 or 3 right after.
If nothing else, then maybe the sr should take into account map progress.

If on escort, one team gets to the end, and the other team gets within 5 meters of that, the mmr shift should be less. As the two teams were even.

With stomps, the amount needs to move more. As clearly the teams weren’t evenly matched.

45

It doesn’t add up even by blizzard’s own words that the rank is the same as the mmr.

47

It’s not about enemies skills, I don’t lose because enemies are better than me, i lose because i have a new player in my team who just charges alone on repeat, a tank who visits the map for some reasons, and a dps shooting a wall in spawn after insulting everybody

2 Likes
49

This is sadly the reality of what happens sometimes.

And sometimes people should just get reported for shooting at walls in spawn.

50

I think the problem is the rank resets they did. Both of them. They said they will do rank resets every six months. Six months is not enough time imo for people to settle in the ranks they should be especially if you take into account how much people play or do not play and all the alt accounts. Each time they do a rank reset the matchmaker is being fed a lot of false info.

I think the matchmaker itself is not broken per se but rather the info it is given.

52

Sometimes its good to have such games and play for chill, If you don’t do matchmaker manipulation and you are outperforming every game it takes a couple of games to be recognized as a “carry potential” player. the game will then intentionally put lower skill players of your bracket with you and not against you and you will start a loose streak. The best method for climbing is for every 2 games where you think you carried you need to have at least one when you let your teammates carry no matter what. If you carry consistently unless you are a GM the matchmaker will use your skill to boost ego of noobs.

53

There isn’t an intentional loser’s queue. However, the matchmaker has two flaws involving groups that are known and abused by some players. Those flaws are the main reasons for unbalanced matches related to the matchmaker.

The matchmaker tries to create mirror matches, based on each player’s MMR and role. If you queue in a group (wide or narrow) the matchmaker will try to find a similar group to put on the enemy team. For example, a group (3 stack) with a diamond tank, diamond support and a gold DPS will be matched against the same (mirror) 3 stack, or something similar, like a diamond tank and support duo with a solo gold DPS.

The first and major flaw that some (or many) players use to manipulate the matchmaker in order to create unbalanced matches in their favor is putting one fake low MMR account (similar to a smurf) in the group. That way, just like in a solo queue, the matchmaker will create an unbalanced match because of the “smurf”. However, there is a catch that is unique (and exploitable) to queuing with a group: when the low MMR account win with a group (especially in a wide group) their MMR barely increases, unlike a smurf in a solo queue. That way, it’s possible to consistently create unbalanced matches. Have you ever wondered why there is a player on your team with 1 elimination and 15 deaths, making your games a 5v4 stomp? Now you know: there is likely a stack on the enemy team with a “low MMR” player too (except they are not actually a low MMR player).

And the second flaw, is that there two kinds of stacks and the matchmaker can’t distinguish between them, because it only calculates individual MMR (and not group MMR). The two types are casual stacks (friends that are only grouping for fun) and coordinated stacks (people that are actually taking advantage of the massive benefits that playing in a coordinated group offers in a game like overwatch). And just to be clear here: the problem is not playing a team game with a team in order to get an advantage. The problem is matching coordinated stacks against solo player (or against uncoordinated groups).

Blizz is aware of those problems, but so far they have not been able to find a solution. They’ve tried to mitigate the problem by introducing narrow and wide groups (mainly in comp), removing LFG and not showing groups on the scoreboard.

2 Likes
54

Aight bet, have fun coping :+1:

2 Likes
55

Sounds a bit fake.
I used to play until i lost a game or two, went to qp to suffer my few losses and went back to comp to win a few again.

My experience would hint that both modes used the same mmr, at that point at least. It was fun to win only in comp, but felt cheap. Haven’t tried it after season 4 so i don’t know if it works anymore after all the changes in season 9.

That felt like regular win lose mm jank.
Or was just my mind making it all up.
No idea of any sort of carry potential or no.

That’s what i use seasonal brawls for. I don’t take them seriously at all.

56

But, DUH, LOSER QUEUE, DUH!!

There can be no other explanation. I am so intelligent so you are wrong!!! Duh!!

57

i would agree with you, if you wernt expected to carry the dumbest mf’ers in the world while it happened.

but it’s really obvious, like getting a ball thats got the same damage as the enemy ana and half the elims, but is also never doing anything when it matters.

whats that? you killed both their healers AND they left the highground AND you are alive, but your team wants to poke the choke till they regroup?

yes sometimes it’s you, but when you 10 losses are in part 2-3 you and 7-8 1 person so bad (i mean in decision making) they shouldn’t even be in silver, let alone diamond

if this wasn’t common, or if my team mates got better along with the enemies, i would agree with you

but no, i don’t believe the game doesn’t know exactly what its doing, because when i do break through the throwing team mates trying to make me lose, my team mates not only keep getting worse, they suddenly start getting toxic

and no i don’t believe the MM doesn’t know exactly who the toxic people are

1 Like
58

You gotta be straight up delusional to play competitive in this game and not acknowledge how insanely rigged it is. It’s about at the same level as saying that cows can fly and the sky is neon purple on a clear sunny day.

You cannot have this amount of entirely one-sided matches without ensuring an equal amount of wins and losses by picking the winner in advance.

59

Or something like that.

1 Like
60

I know it is. Once you’re on it you’re just gonna get people who actively dive 1v5 into their counters or just run away from teamfights cause they gave up, but can’t leave due to leaver penalty. This will last for 6-8 games and then you’ll be in the winners queue to even it out and suddenly you snowball enemies in three minutes with zero deaths.

61

This is how it should be, but unfortunately that’s not how the matchmaker actually works in OW. The matchmaker uses MMR to predict which team is more likely to win and tries to create a 50-50 match based on the total sum of each player’s MMR in a team, but that does not mean that the players on the match have similar MMR necessarily (only the total sum is similar).

In practice, if a player raises their MMR from gold 2 to diamond 2 (just an example), it doesn’t mean that they will have harder matches because they are now playing with and against players in the diamond 2 rank. They’ll have harder matches because they will be playing with and against players from various MMR ranges, just like when they were on gold 2, but since their MMR is now on the right end of the bell curve, they are most likely the highest MMR player in the lobby and, therefore, are expected to perform well and carry the team. If they don’t, the match will likely be a stomp.

To be fair, the matchmaker does indeed try to create a lobby with all players having very similar MMR, at least in the first few minutes of the search. However, if the available pool of players does not allow that, then the matchmaker will “mix and match” the MMR of the players available and create a match with a similar total MMR sum.

This problem is aggravated when stacks are involved, for the reasons stated in my previous post.

62

Pretty much every match is at least 1 division in rank range, very rarely is everyone the exact same rank. The amount of MMR you lose or gain in a single session, or in a span of just a few games, cannot account for the amount of skill disparity between teams from match to match, and cause the consistent stomps.

You’re basically saying that if I win a game or two, my MMR goes up by so much that I get put into a match with people I can’t possible keep up with, therefore I naturally lose the next few games. Surely you see where the issue is with your logic.

By the way, for some context, I came back to the game this season to play seriously again, and started in P1. The last time I played properly was around S4-5 and I was around high masters/low GM. This season I climbed from my initial placement rank of P1 to D1 over some 130 matches with a 59% win rate. Makes sense, right? Except the instant I got near masters I went on the worst losing streak I’ve seen since 2016, and now, about 100 matches later, I’m fighting to stay in P1. If I drop to P2, I’ll be the lowest rank I’ve been since OW2 launched, and even lower than I was in OW1. The majority of the matches in this massive rank drop were likewise some of the worst I’ve ever seen. Most of the time there was absolutely nothing I could have done to save my teammates from themselves.

So either something is very much out of whack with the matchmaker, or I’ve been drinking a whole lot of silly juice in the past 12 months and have somehow turned into the worst player I’ve ever been.

I main Ana, so I’m watching my teammates get hard diffed in real time. I can predict with a very high degree of accuracy that someone is about to do something dumb that’s gonna get them killed, and exactly what’s going to kill them. I made a little mini game out of it.

It’s got to a point where the enemy teams are starting to acknowledge that I’m essentially 1v9. I’m basically smurfing at this point but the game seems to think I need to be even lower than I already am.

Oh, and my win rate is now negative, something I’ve never had before in my entire OW career. From 59% win rate to sub 50%. Curious, isn’t it?

3 Likes
63

So you’re saying people get more toxic as you climb? Wow, I’m so surprised.

64

Not exactly, a 15 win streak is only like 2 tiers in a rank and I don’t think i have to explain to anyone that the difference between a plat2 and a diamond 4 is nothing, Just like the difference between diamond4 and masters3 is small but at least noticeable.

I also spent years in masters and years in plat, it’s not like things just get consistently more toxic anywhere.

The only time i ever see things get consistently (several matches in a row) more toxic is after 10+wins in a row or when a 1trick is throwing the match.

but amazingly the toxic people stop showing up after 2 losses. it must just be a coincidence at 40sr is the boundary between toxic and not, even though i was just there 4 mins ago lol