Looks like Lucio's finally a D-tier hero

Her nerfs went live during this season correct but not for OWL is this correct? This is why I do not want to include just GM data. She has been in comp 2 months… Again the first month is a wash and Cnflagration I believe you might just be misinterpreting me. I am just stating GM does not have enough of a pool to run good stats.

A player could be a GM caliber player but can not invest the time to play. The decay will possibly effect them. So again this is why I would include Diamond and Master. Than run the numbers and lets see.

The power creep is there, Blizzard has a record of buffing in a game that ends up nerfing or oppressing other character / classes in games causing a FoTM effect.

I agree that a lot of the support changes are for ‘more access’.
Brigitte and Moira are both fairly low skill floor heros for ‘easy access’, and Mercy was already like that.

For Lucio, though, I don’t mind that they made his general wallriding easier for new players. I mean, I feel like Blizzard’s thought was ‘wow Lucio isn’t being played often, it must be because his wallriding is so hard!’ which is comically not the case, but that’s neither here nor there. Even very seasoned Lucio players can get new things out of the new wallriding, and it’s still painfully obvious when you’re playing against a Lucio main or a new Lucio. No matter how they change wall-riding, Lucio still moves at a fairly set speed and trajectory on a wall…a Lucio main with hundreds of hours on him knows that, and knows that a Lucio who remains like that is a dead Lucio. Gotta keep moving, gotta know those paths.

In general, while I like the wallriding changes, I am very worried that Blizzard will think ‘well we’ve just looked at Lucio and given him those sweet wallriding buffs, so he’s done!’, when that could not be further from the truth. And the Soundwave ammo-change is not a buff either, because there is no way Lucio should have required ammo and a CD for that ability in the first place. Lucio mains have been campaigning for that to be removed for years. It was the only ability in the game like that, on top of being one of the weakest abilities anyway. So in my opinion, the Lucio changes were just lateral -possibly QoL- changes, not buffs whatsoever.

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Gm has enough players for it to be valuable, and it is valuable in the sense that it is the top of the game outside of pro play, which is very different from the ladder. If we look at more ranks outside of gm, brig looks much stronger, she is easy to play and very accessible. Looking at all ranks she has the 9th highest pick rate, and 2nd highest winrate. Only hero with a higher winrate is sym who is very rarely played.

Diamond she is 10th pick rate, 2nd win rate. Masters 8th pick rate and the highest win rate. Dont really know why we started talking about brig a bunch but her stats do make her look pretty nutty. These were all weekly stats.

This is what I’m fearing as well.

Also, I think it’s weird that they kept soundwave dependent on ammo: it doesn’t trigger on an empty mag. Another thing Brig doesn’t have to complain about, I guess.

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This morning I got screwed by the no ammo thing again. Soundwave off cooldown. Reaper suddenly falls on top of my head. “oh crap! Boop! Why you not working?” Death Blossom. Teammates dying. I’m dying.

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That’s one of the worst feelings in the game, when you think you’ve got that combo down to finish a Genji -SW off CD- but you can’t use it, it just starts the reload animation. Why on earth does it doe this? It’s not meant to be dependent on ammo anymore. It’s so frustrating.

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Wait, if you dont have any ammo you cant use boop even tho it doesnt require ammo? I havent really played lucio in quite a while now.

I was once a new player back in 2016 a month after the game launched, I didn’t need someone to make things easier for me and most certainly, nobody else does right now, two years later.

The magic of the game, any game, is the journey the player goes through in his goal to become the best X hero main/class.

Having the game pushing you at your goal after 10 games of practice not only is unhealthy, but also should make players feel as if the game considers them downright dumb for picking the role. Like honestly, what’s the point and where’s the magic when you can master a hero within an hour maximum ? Where’s the competition in first place ? Only casuals with no goals would have no issue with it.

Brigitte is the prime example of this case and Lucio’s ‘buff’ as well. They are not helping anyone or the game itself, they actually make me feel like an idiot to be quite honest and on top of that, fueling the dps mains’ belief of ‘support role is easy, so you must be bad at the game’.

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Well at least it’s a relief I’m not the only one having an issue with this.

I don’t seem to recall this happening before the change, though. Did the previous version trigger on an empty mag, despite there being no ammo to consume?
Or have I just become really bad at ammo management now that I don’t have to account for sound wave anymore? Or have I finally 420’d my memory?

If the ammo count is at zero - no boop.

Yea I just tried that, felt real bad. Guess before they made it not cost ammo same thing would happen, but thats cuz it used ammo. Guess this is an oversight and they didnt realize that it still needs ammo to boop, just doesnt use any. Maybe this bug will get fixed in 18 months.

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Actually, I hadn’t thought it might be a bug. Maybe I’ll put it in the bug forums and see what the answer is. It’s such a negligible ability, why have it tied to ammo at all.

For me, with the wallriding changes, I do like them. They make some of the fancier footwork wallrides that were perhaps too time-consuming or risky to get off really useful in normal gameplay now. I still feel rewarded for the amount of time I’ve put in to my wallriding. In fact, as far as Lucio goes, the wallriding is perhaps the only part of his kit that I feel is satisfying and rewarding to use. I used to like Soundwave for knockbacks, but with the aerial strafing -on top of almost every hero having a movement ability now- it feels practically useless.

I still find Lucio very good at his role. If anything I have gripes about with him is his ultimate. The delay is awful and highly manipulated for him to lose needing to touch the ground.

At first I was against the wall ride change, but after the reverted him being made slower with it, then it was fine. Can still do all the stuff you could before, can now just move in a predictable line along the wall if you hold the button, doesnt really change much imo.

His ultimate winds up the same as Reinhardts they both get the shaft on that. To easily noticeable and can be somewhat preventable, cause to be bugged, or unable to utilize it.

Lucio needs love and the reload issue needs fixed. What did his batteries run out? How come Hanzo’s quiver is never empty?

Its not a nerf but it’s not really a buff either. It just makes it a lot easier for people with 2 hours on Lucio to impress people who have 1 hour on Lucio, and it sorta invalidates a fair amount of my 400 hours on Lucio. I worked to learn so many things that any noob can do now.

I dont feel like Lucios basekit needs any changes
His auras shouldnt be hackable and his ult needs a buff to a point where it can compete with Trans. Right now Trans is easier to get and more effective than soundbarrier (this was always the case but ultimates to prevent teamwhipes became super important during S9/10 so that SB vs. Trans became an actual issue)

Meh, bouncing off the walls still makes you much harder to hit and move faster than someone just holding space, also cant climb for height while just holding space.

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That’s how I felt. I really campaigned to allow him to maintain his speed, and I’m happy they left it. It would have been a flat nerf without that. Though it makes me wonder; I’ve heard that almost everyone on the Overwatch team plays a lot of Overwatch -that’s part of their job, afterall-, but I really feel that with a lot of the Lucio changes -especially the proposed changes, that get changed only when Lucio mains explain the problem with them, there is no actual Lucio main on the Overwatch team. Some of the changes they’ve suggested or attempted for Lucio -and even worse are the changes that have rolled out without the intent to nerf Lucio, and there was no mention of any changes are puzzling. If anyone with virtually any time on Lucio tried to use him on that proposed build, they would have noticed the problem.

Also, according to the patchnotes for May 3rd;

I’m not sure if that’s just misleading, or what. Whenever the SW issue happens in game, I’m obviously in the middle of a fight and can’t always stop to inspect the exact situation that caused it, but after testing in the practice range a bit, it seems that, while ordinarily you’re able to cancel the reload to use Soundwave -assuming it is off CD-, if you’ve got zero ammo left -which automatically prompts the reload- it does not allow you to immediately cancel that reload with Soundwave. You are stuck in the reload animation. That’s what’s killer. You should be able to use Soundwave and then reload. I’m not sure if this constitutes as a bug or just misguided.

It has to be a bug, says right there it can be used while reloading, I assume that meant to stop the reload and do the boop, but still seems like you cant do that with an empty clip. Maybe it is somewhere on their known bugs list.