Looks like Lucio's finally a D-tier hero

General Discussion
43

Buffing his HPS would make him better at his job but I don’t think we need more healing in this game. Making his Ult cast more quickly would just make him easier to play - I’m not necessarily for that. Making his ult give more shields would expand his role to let him defend against more enemy ults. Making his boop stronger would just give him more cheap kills. No. Reducing his amp cooldown would make him more reliable.

Some suggestions would help Lucio, but not in pleasing ways. I don’t want Lucio to be better at just existing.

I favor projectile speed increase. An aura range increase would make his job easier, but it would also give him more ways to impact the battle and therefore more decisions to make. The aura range increase would be healthy. I am against faster ult casting and against greater HPS, unless the HPS increase comes from a reduced Amp cooldown. Then it would be okay.

1 Like
44

Looking at GM

Lucio is at 16/27 place, which puts him at the middle of the pack. Middle is not trash.

While his pickrate is low, even meta heroes pickrates are sub 5% outside of the big five heroes.

Brigitte, who is definitely a meta hero, is sitting at 2.96% pickrate this week.

There is only 1 slot “available” right now, and that spot is mostly reserved for heroes that counter Hanzo, kill his counters, or synergize well with him.

That’s why the hero pickrates outside of those five are so low right now, because they are all competing for a singular spot.

All that said, we can ignore current pick and winrate and look at his place in the game, and see that he has been probably one of the biggest victims of power creep for a while now. And will continue to be so until he gets buffs. Because he doesn’t feel like he does his job well, atm.

So he needs buffs to make him better.

45

Dont forget to mention his win rate is 21/27th. He isnt picked too much and when he is, he loses, that doesnt look good. And in the last 6 months in gm, he had the 3rd lowest win rate. Based on pick and win rates, he is struggling for a long time. But yea, powercreep got him, just better choices.

2 Likes
46

GM is not a large enough pool for statistics. Personally I would like to see more justification by numbers with a larger pool. By using Diamond, Master, and GM the data will be more rounded.

The problem with GM there is not much experimentation for the way OW was built. That was group countering of each others makeups. They go with more of ease of use techniques. Nothing against that but becomes more muscle reflex than thought. Humans are creatures of habit so it is difficult to see different meta’s if what you are currently running is working.

Anywho Lucio needs love and so do other heroes. Blizzard needs to start testing group makeups more frequently and listen to the testers that volunteer. If you want an ESport this has to be done. If this is not done than you have mirroring teams and that is beyond boring and proving your characters are not balanced.

47

Yea, but I think it’s good to ingore pick and winrates right now because the same 5 heroes are being used practically every single every match.

So for the most part, all the 22 other heroes are competing for a single slot which is how Brigitte can be sitting at a less than 3% pickrate right now (gm this week) while still being very much a top shelf hero.

It also means the gm winrates are unreliable because you are always playing against and with almost the exact same lineup in every match. So the winrates right now only tell you how they fair against/that single lineup, and not how they fair against a variety of heroes.

It’s just such useless data until Hanzo is toned down a notch so he stops artificially inflating the win and pickrate of every hero he synergies well with and artificially deflating every hero that he takes their job or counters.

The reason I think that Lucio needs a buff is that his issues predate Hanzo, and he hasn’t felt like he could keep up for a long time.

1 Like
48

Which is why I also looked at his winrate in the last 6 months, where more than 2/3 of the data would be from before this meta, he was doing badly there too. Either way, many of his issues have already been mentioned here.

49

I see, season ten was out for two months and Brigitte has been out for three months. Really you could just pull the last two months of data. Since new characters see a lot of play time at first release. The first month of data needs to be voided.

50

Right, I wasn’t disagreeing with you. As I said, the reason I think he needs a buff is his issues predate the lineup.

The heroes I think would be safe to buff are the ones that have been struggling for a long time, and not just because of this lineup. Lucio, Ana, Sombra, Bastion, Torbjorn, they’ve all been struggling for quite a while. They need buffs even if their stats are bettered by this individual lineup (for example Ana) because this lineups stats are inflated by something that will obviously not continue to remain unadjusted.

1 Like
51

Brig has not been out for 3 months, just under 2 months. In competitive anyways, who cares about qp stats. Either way the point remains, lucio has been a pretty bad pick ever since the mercy rework. And things only got worse with the introduction of more super easy to play high value supports, like brig.

52

UPDATE: The Overwatch Brigitte release date is finally here! You can officially check her out on consoles and in the non-test servers on PC in just a few days on March 20th, 2018. Have fun!Mar 5, 2018

Just as I said, this season is two months old. Brig has been out for three months. So you can take the data from this season time period of two months.

53

Did you not read what I said?

We were talking about hero pick rates and win rates, why would her being in quick play be included in that? Her stats were from just under 2 months, not 3.

54

You have to learn strats in QP / Comp. I am not defending Brigitte, just wanting a more accurate data pool. BTW you are still placed in QP with similar MMR / SR players at times if not higher. You need to learn strats somewhere and to put them into play at some point if you play competitively.

55

Lucio’s biggest issue is general powercreep. I’ve had people try to explain to me on these very forums that the concept of powercreep does not exist in Overwatch, which is laughable.

Lucio’s usefulness is just completely outclassed by other options. He is a riskier and more difficult hero to play than some of the other supports, but offers minimal rewards for that risk. Unlike Mercy, who is low risk and high reward.

That, on top of Lucio’s ult being near useless in the current state of the game (not meta, but the general game as it stands), and Lucio’s healing being negligible -and yes, I understand Lucio’s primary role is not healing, but when other heros heal more but still provide more and better utility, why have a Lucio?

Lucio’s Sounwave is also an ability that desperetly needs looking at; since the Global Movement update it feels like a practically useless ability, and now every single hero that comes out has a mobility to just straight up negate its effects.

Most importantly is that Brigitte has come out, which originally worried Lucio mains; her kit sounded so similar…but I feel like the devs anticipated the anxiety and took pains to explain that while they sound alike, they’re actually different…but then Brigitte actually was released, and sure, they’re different in that most of her kit is flat better. Her survilibility is better, her damage is often better when paired with her kit, her self-heal is better, her overall HPS is better, her ult feels better to use, and her Chain Whip ability is almost insultingly better than Lucio’s Soundwave. The same CD, but 20m range, and more than double the damage (25 to 70), and a far stronger, more consistent knockback.

Almost every major patch that has gone out for more than 6 months has included some form of indirect (unintended) nerf to Lucio, but nothing has been done to counter this. This, on top of heros like Mercy, Brigitte and Moira just being too dominant right now, has absolutely decimated Lucio.

I think Lucio desperately needs a small buff. I think the state of the supports would be fixed if Mercy got moderate nerfs (rez should be behind an ult for sure, but big-rez should not come back), Brigitte got toned down, Zen’s discord could perhaps do with a tiny bit of toning down, Ana could use a tiny boost up, and Lucio could use some dusting off.

My suggestions for Lucio would be that his healing heals based on a percent of the targets health rather than flat healing. So he can heal big-guys up a little more easily. I don’t think the radius needs adjusting. Lucio’s ult needs to be buffed a little; the cast time on it is ridiculous, the charge rate for his ult is laughably almost the slowest in the game, and its effects are practically useless in the game with the current cast. More shields, or more lasting shields, or something like that.

Lucio’s soundwave also needs to have improved knockback. It just needs to feel slightly more consistent, and have the knockback range increased a smidge. Those are the changes I feel are most important.

I’d like for Lucio’s projectiles to go a little faster, but I don’t think he absolutely needs that in the same way he needs the other changes.

56

in mid diamond, if my team picks lucio i assume the game is lost. facing brig+mercy with lucio+whatever is a waste of time.

1 Like
57

Oh cmon, dont pretend that we can get any real data from qp, where ppl dont try, make 6 dps comps, leave games often. There are no strats in qp, and people need like 3 mins to learn how to play brig, if they could play other heroes at their rank, in no time they would be at that rank or higher with brig.

58

I know they’re relevant to the topic of discussion but to be honest I don’t care to make this too much about the other healers. All that leads to is worried Mercy/Brig/Moira players looking for reasons to disagree.

I would prefer not to be against them. It’s hard because I feel a little bitter, but I need allies.

59

Her 3 month data is useless for a few different reasons.

  1. She has not been in comp 3 months.
  2. She has received three nerfs since was released and her old data is not only more numerous at the moment, but is so drastically different(she was a must pick) from now, that it would skew the data.
  3. The data is mostly measuring how she plays with/against a static composition of the same five heroes.

Like it or not, they need to turn their attention to Hanzo and seeing how new Symmetra does to tone this all down. Then they can make changes to the other meta 5, Brig, and any newly struggling heroes as needed.

60

Lucio boop is 25 dmg, not 35.

61

My bad, typo, will fix. Thanks! : ).

1 Like
62

This is exactly why I begin to dislike this game, or at least an aspect of it.

Every patch they make the support category ‘more accessible’. Way to make a role dumb, thus create a worse reputation for its mains. Whats worse, the ones who are easier to pick up can create the most impact in the game and compared to the rest of supports. Not everything has to be easy and casual in this game.

For a game that aims to be an e-spot, thus competitive, it surely does every thing against this aim.

3 Likes