So apparently Symmetra and Zarya ult charge gets filled up in the same speed. 
Wait, you’re actually going to ignore all the points I made because I didn’t specify that heroes have different ult charge #'s that they have to meet? I didn’t think I had to get that specific because I thought you played the game before, but the way ult charge is earned (using your hero’s primary fire/abilites) is the same, each hero just has a different amount of ult charge they have to reach.
Hopefully I cleared things up. Maybe you can look at the rest of my post now?
Your logic falls apart. You cannot have a universal rule for every hero because every hero is different. This is the norm, not the exception. The only way you can apply a universal rule is by having all heroes be the same and basically have a standard FPS. Ult charge is a mechanic that applies to all heroes yet works differently for every hero because it takes into consideration the specific kit. Therefore your logic fails.
This by the way again has nothing to do with my argument. Nowhere in this thread I talk about all heroes or about something universal. I talk specifically about Ana and Mercy.
Okay. Can you explain to me why it is okay for you to make a universal rule here then?
And even if it is just in regards to Ana and Mercy, last time I checked Ana and Mercy aren’t the same hero, so why is it that you can confidently make a rule regarding just them?
Your logic seems to be falling apart.
Again for the 10th time, this is not a universal rule. It’s a continuation of my previous sentence which is specifically about Ana and Mercy. If this is not clear enough, literally the next sentence talks about the latest changes to the supports making it even more clear that I’m talking specifically about Mercy and Ana.
Because to balance one hero you have to take a look at its counterpart in the same role. This is completely different from making universal rules that apply to all heroes.
Nothing about my logic falls apart, you guys either don’t read my argument or want to take separate statements out of context and present in a way that I never claim to be so that you can “defeat” them.
This is my original argument - which is pretty specific and concrete. Stop trying to take apart every sentence and present it on its own or put some spin on it that I never claim. The argument is coherent together.
Also fun fact. The devs tried to use Mercy’s winrate to justify her not needing any changes, despite the constant complaints. Remember this quote?
This was posted on May 3, 2018
Meanwhile, Mercy during that time has had a 53% winrate in GM.
https://gyazo.com/bb5dd3b13fd6d21a8578a1f2579b0e35
What they did not disclose was that during that same day, Ana’s winrate was at a healthy 57% GM. A whole 4% difference.
https://gyazo.com/e74f38d4aeb45430fac87d52d9c264b5
Ana didn’t just do well, she was doing amazingly well, according to their standards. But of course, people will still say “Mercy needs to be nerfed so Ana can shine!”
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls 
2 Likes
Have tanks been recently reworked? This debate is too much for you mon’amie. (French for friend, don’t false report me, not flirting with you) I’m expecting too much from my opponents I guess, you can’t even follow two paragraphs. 
Nope. But you might notice that Brigitte, who is also mechanically simplistic, was nerfed in the support patch.
Here, you can have this back:
As it’s pretty clear based on how you still have yet to…
5 Likes
I’m not talking about Brigitte, I’m talking about Ana and Mercy. I’ve never said the word Brigitte anywhere. Find me a citation.
And since you couldn’t find a citation for this either like I asked you, I never make such statement.
No matter how many people you bring against me or how much you try to assassinate my character, my argument still stands and you can’t refute it.
Avoiding answering direct question doesn’t mean you win argument, rather the opposite.
2 Likes
I never make such analogy and never compare the interactions of two tanks to the interactions of two supports.
Refute away.
You compare two heroes in terms of mechanical skill. How hero category affects it?
And if heroes with higher mechanical skill should dominate, then Widowmaker supposed to be best hero in whole game.
Ana scales a lot better with mechanical skill than Mercy.
A team with a strong Ana vs a team with an equally strong Mercy, the team with the Ana should technically win out IMO. Her abilities can be applied offensively and defensively quite well. She also contributes to the mid-fight a lot more (in fact, I would argue more than any other healer).
It is not crazy to see why Ana is seeing a superior win rate to Mercy after the recent changes.
I would argue she is. Have you watched OWL? Some teams are literally carried by their Widowmaker players. She is one of the heroes that was more or less mandatory most of the OWL season.
Because they occupy completely different roles. You cannot apply a universal rule that applies to all unless every hero is the same and you have a standard FPS. I already answered this. This is why a universal mechanic like ult charge is applied differently to every hero respective of its kit and specifics.
You never do a uni-varied analysis to predict dominance or superiority. That’s not how it works. There are multiple variables that predict success.
You compare two heroes, that perform same role. Like Mercy and Ana are healers, Wrecking Ball and Reinhardt are tanks. So, repeating question from Titanium: why it’s ok for less demanding in mechanical skill tank to be better, than more demanding one? And why it’s not ok for healers?
As for Widowmaker being best hero - if your rule “more mechanical skill = stronger hero” applied, then she indeed strongest hero, and should be capable to outmatch any other DPS.
Because we have such few tanks and healers to choose from when compared to DPS heroes, that each of those heroes are intentionally supposed to be unique and situational. Reinhardt is a hard-tank, he has a huge shield his teammates can stay behind when pushing forward or trying to hold a point. Hammond has zero shield his teammates can use, so he honestly is a worse tank than Roadhog, because at least Roadhog can body block and then use his inhaler.
They just serve difference purposes, and sometimes one is picked over the other for their specific utility. You may pick Lucio over Zenyatta for his speed boost, or you may pick Brigitte over Lucio for her armor and peeling capabilities. We don’t want them to be the same, otherwise it would be super stale. Every game with healers and tanks all are super unique. Even in WoW, all the tanks and healers are used for different reasons that revolve around their strengths and weaknesses.
It’s good game design. Trust me, you don’t want everyone to be the same. Additionally, you also don’t want only one of those people to be far superior in literally every aspect due to how overtuned they are, because that also makes it very stale.
Almost like overbuff only has data on 12% of the playerbase because 88% uses private profiles.
Overbuff data is NOT correct
Then balancing around winrates/pickrates goes out of window, since other than meta and personal preference, healers and tanks can’t be replaced by one another without repicking whole team.
If you have multiple tanks, you use Moira/Ana, right?. Not because they are best healers, even if they have nearly 99% pickrate - just because they are good at healing multiple tanks.
Eh…Blizzard has access to better analytics than ourselves, especially now that private profiles has made websites like Overbuff have skewed data. I would imagine the data is a fraction of what the real data actually is.
I feel like balancing around winrates and pickrates every single time is not good balancing because sometimes things are situational. Reinhardt had really, really low pickrates when Dive was popular for multiple months, but nothing changed on him. Blizzard didn’t want to change him because they know that a truly balanced hero will shift in the meta depending on who they synergize with.
I think it’s mostly about strengths and weaknesses, as well as chemistry between other heroes. An example of when a change may be needed is on a hero like Orisa, because she only synergizes with really weak heroes at the moment, like Roadhog, Torbjorn, and Bastion. So looking at that, we need to consider they all need some tweaking, which anyone who pays attention in this game knows all of those heroes definitely need some minor buffs (and yes, I know Torbjorn is getting a rework).
They won’t be getting anything significant, however, or it will end in lots of adjustments later.
As for why Mercy was repeatedly nerfed - devs claimed it’s because of high pick rate, which, in turn, explained simply: she is best for poorly coordinated teams, where no one sticks together, making most healers ineffective.
Now I am waiting, what will they do, if Mercy somehow ends as top pick again(since uncoordinated teams are more rule, than exception).